Marketing Trends 2025: Actionable Insights for Agencies & fCMOs

Marketing Trends 2025: Actionable Insights for Agencies & fCMOs written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The marketing world never sits still, and as we approach 2025, the buzz of new possibilities is louder than ever. For marketing consultants, agencies, and fractional CMOs, understanding these trends isn’t optional — it’s essential.

For over 30 years, I’ve been committed to helping small and medium-sized businesses achieve their goals through systematic, strategic marketing. My experience has taught me one thing above all else — businesses succeed when they solve their customers’ greatest problems and stick to a clear, repeatable approach. That philosophy is what led to the creation of the Duct Tape Marketing System — a framework that turns chaotic tactics into a predictable path for growth.

So, let’s talk about five major marketing trends for 2025 that consultants, agencies, and fractional CMOs need to watch. No surprise — a lot of these trends are powered by AI. That’s just where we are right now. But there’s more to it than just technology. These changes are about meeting the new expectations of your customers, and if you adapt, you’ll thrive

     

Table Of Contents:

• • Marketing Trends 2025: What to Expect
    • 1. Hyper-Personalization Powered by AI
    • 2. The Rise of Decentralized Communities
    • 3. Generative AI: Revolutionizing Creative Production
    • 4. AI-Driven Marketing Orchestration
    • 5. Brand Marketing: Back to Basics
    • 6. BONUS MLaaS: Marketing Leadership as a Service
  • The Future of Video, Influencers, and Events
    • Video’s Reign Continues
    • Influencer Marketing Still Strong
    • In-Person Events Are Back
  • AI in Marketing: A Tool for Growth or a Threat?
    • The Power of AI
    • Embracing Digital Minimalism

Marketing Trends 2025: What to Expect

1. Hyper-Personalization Powered by AI

AI lets us personalize marketing campaigns at an incredible scale. AI tools help segment customers down to the individual. This granular approach will be key for staying competitive.

Customers now expect personalized messages. Generic messaging will soon feel outdated. Think one-to-one campaigns that feel custom-made.

Many CRMs like HubSpot and ActiveCampaign already allow for email personalization. Combine these with customer data platforms for even deeper ai-driven personalization and dynamic content. You don’t need to dive in headfirst; starting small with personalized newsletters or website content can make a real difference.

2. The Rise of Decentralized Communities

People are looking beyond traditional social networks. They feel these platforms are over-saturated with ads. Many seek ad-light experiences on platforms like Reddit and BlueSky.

These decentralized communities offer meaningful interactions and niche discussions. Smart brands are building smaller, engaged communities around shared interests.

As search algorithms increasingly feature content from decentralized communities, they offer a better connection to audiences. For example, Google now features more Reddit content.

3. Generative AI: Revolutionizing Creative Production

AI isn’t just for writing blog posts. Generative AI is changing how we create content including videos and graphics. This allows everyone to access visual content creation tools easily.

The best creative platforms currently include DALL-E 3, Pictory AI, Midjourney, and Adobe Firefly. Or if you create need images with a lot of text try out ideogram. OpusClips and Vizard are great for AI generated video clipping and minimal editing.

It is important to understand these platforms and market responses. But the real key is to find the tool that works for you and your business and learn that one. New tools will inevitably come on the scene, but if you play tool leap frog it will be hard to really see the effectiveness these tools can have on your teams productivity.

This emerging trend allows marketers to generate creative content and create impactful marketing materials.

4. AI-Driven Marketing Orchestration

AI will become the central nervous system of campaign management. From automation to advanced analytics, AI can optimize processes, from SOPs to campaigns.

Tools like GoHighLevel integrate AI into email and ad workflows. I’m also observing how Google Analytics is leveraging AI for analysis.

AI-driven automation handles many touchpoints, freeing us to focus elsewhere and create engaging experiences.

5. Brand Marketing: Back to Basics

With AI and algorithms changing SEO and ad platforms, brand marketing is more critical than ever. This means focusing on trust, loyalty, and aligning values with customer preferences.

Brand trust is vital; 81% of consumers say trust influences buying decisions . Because consumers have so many options, brand marketing delivers strong, meaningful results. This is partially because people relate to a story.

Consumers in 2025 want authenticity and personalized experiences. They choose brands reflecting their values. The preference for short-form video and ad-light platforms reveals a desire for efficient information. Social commerce trends indicate people expect purchasing options through shoppable content and streamlined social media platforms.

Consumers also want brands that use their platforms for social good. And, that participate in meaningful ways, including through thing like sustainability marketing or give-back programs.

Remember that trust and values drive marketing trends. Customers are increasingly interested in brands that share their values. Focusing on these key trends can lead to repeat purchases and stronger customer loyalty.

6. BONUS MLaaS: Marketing Leadership as a Service

In 2025, I’d like to coin a new term, Marketing Leadership as a Service (MLaaS) — it’s about providing fractional marketing leadership to businesses that need strategic direction without the full-time commitment.

Small and mid-sized businesses often lack the resources for a full-time CMO, but they do need someone who can build strategy, orchestrate teams, and navigate new technologies. MLaaS fills that gap. As a marketing consultant or fractional CMO, you’re not just offering services — you’re offering leadership, insight, and strategic vision.

The Future of Video, Influencers, and Events

Video’s Reign Continues

While broadcast TV still has reach, streaming is gaining traction. Fifty percent of people now say they primarily stream TV . Smart brands should diversify their video efforts, including short-form video.

Video marketing trends evolve quickly. Platforms like YouTube are partnering with services like BARB in the UK to adapt to consumer behaviors.

Short, engaging videos, including those published on platforms like Youtube Shorts and Instagram Reels, are increasingly popular. HubSpot’s 2024 Consumer Trends Report found that 37% of consumers prefer short videos for product discovery and a majority want more video content.

Influencer Marketing Still Strong

Influencer marketing is a $24 billion industry . Around 40% of marketers allocate a quarter of their budgets to influencer campaigns.

Although I think we will see this trend change form a bit, affiliate and influencer marketing will continue to grow in 2025. This marketing strategy, focused on driving engagement and sales, has only been trending up.

In-Person Events Are Back

While virtual events thrived during the pandemic, in-person events are going to continue to grow in 2025. Experiential marketing is bigger than pre-pandemic . This shift highlights our need for real-world connections. The best events provide memorable experiences through engagement and interaction.

AI in Marketing: A Tool for Growth or a Threat?

The Power of AI

AI is transforming marketing, and that can be a good thing. eMarketer reports that, ” 3 in 4 marketers are using AI for content creation. ” These tools aren’t here to replace us — they’re here to make us better, freeing us up to focus on what humans do best: building relationships and crafting strategy.

Machine learning and real-time engagement tools (ChatGPT or AI chat bots) help us connect with audiences more effectively, whether through social media, voice search, or personalized content. Instead of fearing AI, use it to enhance your marketing and deliver more value.

The future of marketing is human — AI just helps us get there faster.

Embracing Digital Minimalism

To manage information overload, brands should adopt digital minimalism . Cutting excess helps messaging stand out.

Focusing on essential information and user preferences makes customers the priority. This can improve search optimization, help brands connect with customers, and further enhance customer engagement.

Conclusion

Marketing trends in 2025 blend cutting-edge technology and genuine human connection. AI offers marketers exciting new opportunities. Marketers can now create one-of-a-kind customer journeys.

They can also personalize messaging even further, deliver insights and valuable experiences, and make themselves indispensable to audiences. As a result, 2025 trends are moving from broad acquisition to targeted, personal efforts.

I know the challenges of starting a marketing agency and running a business firsthand—the endless research, the trials, the errors. It wasn’t easy, but it taught me invaluable lessons. From these experiences and over 28 years of trial and error, I developed a proven marketing system that has since helped countless businesses sustainably grow and scale.

Whether you’re a business owner aiming to grow (We’ve helped 1000s of SMBs 2x-10x their business) or an agency looking to enhance your client services (over 500 agencies globally have licensed our system), the Duct Tape Marketing Fractional CMO+ System can be tailored to meet your needs and boost your success. All it takes is the right strategy.

Ready to see real results? Let’s connect. Schedule a strategy session with our team today.

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Building a $220M Empire: The Power of Training and Branding

Building a $220M Empire: The Power of Training and Branding written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with Tommy Mello

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Tommy Mello, a visionary entrepreneur and founder of a $220 million home services business operating across 20 states. As the author of Elevate: Build a Business Where Everybody Wins and host of The Home Service Expert podcast, Tommy has dedicated his career to helping others achieve business success by focusing on recruiting top talent, optimizing branding strategies, and delivering exceptional customer experiences.

During our conversation, Tommy shared his journey of scaling a business from a small operation to an industry leader in the home services space. He emphasized the importance of investing in training, aligning core values, and leveraging performance pay systems to build a thriving team and long-term customer loyalty.

Key Takeaways:

• Recruit Like You Market: Tommy treats recruiting like a marketing campaign, creating a continuous pipeline of A-plus talent. He focuses on identifying the right candidates by defining the ideal “avatar” for each role and using targeted ads to attract them.
• Performance Pay Drives Results: Transitioning to performance-based pay not only motivates employees but also improves KPIs like booking rates, conversion rates, and customer satisfaction, driving both team and business success.
• Branding is More Than a Logo: Tommy’s brand overhaul, including visually striking vehicle wraps and a unified brand voice across email, billboards, and yard signs, elevated his company’s visibility and customer trust.
• Optimize the Call Center: A well-trained call center is critical. By focusing on empathy, responsiveness, and problem-solving, his team converts more leads into loyal customers, maximizing ROI on marketing investments.
• Blue-Collar Jobs Are the Future: With skilled labor shortages increasing, Tommy sees a bright future for tradespeople, emphasizing the financial and personal rewards of working in the home services sector.

Chapters:

• [00:00] Who is Tommy Mello?
• [02:14] Optimizing Recruitment and Service Quality
• [04:05] Branding Goes Beyond Your Logo
• [07:26] Motivating Employees to Perform
• [12:37] Recruiting vs. Creating A-Players
• [15:52] Using Marketing to Recruit

More About Tommy Mello: 

• Check out Tommy Mello’s Website
• Connect with Tommy Mello on Instagram
• Read Elevate: Build a Business Where Everybody Wins by Tommy Mello

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by

Want to elevate your marketing game? AdCritter pairs Connected TV ads with precise digital retargeting to drive real results. Discover how their full-funnel strategy can help your business grow smarter. Let them know Duct Tape Marketing sent you, and you’ll get a dollar-for-dollar match on your first campaign! Learn more at adcritter.com.

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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John Jantsch (00:01.24)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duck Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Tommy Mello. He's a driven entrepreneur who's built a 220 million home services business with over 700 employees across 20 states. He's also the founder of Home Service Expert, where he's dedicated to helping fellow entrepreneurs achieve the same level of success. He's also the host of a popular Home Service Expert podcast and the author of

Elevate, build a business where everybody wins. So Tommy, welcome to the show.

Tommy Mello (00:35.662)

Thank you. Really excited to be here.

John Jantsch (00:37.004)

So I got looking back at this, think this is at least your second appearance on the show. And I got looking back and the last time you were on the show, it was 2020. were in the throes of, or maybe just starting to come out of the pandemic. And the home services business was really kind of crazy at that point. A lot of folks were in turmoil. A lot of folks were really having trouble finding skilled labor. So.

Fast forward to 2024, what's the state of the industry today?

Tommy Mello (01:08.962)

Never been better. You know, we were deemed essential during COVID. And the fact is, there's always this teeter totter. You need more leads or you need more great people. I learned in 2017 how to build my own technicians. So right now we graduate from my training school right next door, about 50 technicians a month. But it's kind of, I view recruiting like marketing.

John Jantsch (01:11.608)

Yeah, right.

John Jantsch (01:19.032)

Right.

Tommy Mello (01:36.506)

You got to really define who your avatar is and make sure it's the right person because if you're not converting leads getting the right reviews getting the right opportunity job averages You know people are always like I need more leads and I'm like well You must be booking every phone call. You must be converting every Booked call to a paid customer and they're like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like, well your marketing dollars are going to waste because your call centers Not working out very well. Your technicians are not converting very well. You don't have a rehash program. So

I'm kind of jumping around here a little bit, but the most important thing is you got the right people showing up to the right leads. And you should be ranking your leads and ranking the people showing up to the leads.

John Jantsch (02:11.202)

Okay.

John Jantsch (02:17.282)

Yeah. So, it's interesting because I think a lot of business owners, doesn't matter what industry, kind of think of hiring as an event. I need people. I'll go out and hire some people. I'll run some ads. I'll hire some people. And the way you're talking about it is more like we would think of traditional marketing. You've got to know who that ideal customer is. You've got to have the right message. You've got to constantly build pipeline to get those folks. And I think of a lot of businesses treated recruitment that way.

They'd find a lot more success rather than just always firefighting.

Tommy Mello (02:52.122)

Can tell you this What if I told you like I want you to the old Pareto 80-20 rule what I'd love people to do is look at their top 20 % I said what if they were able to multiply that by five so that what that means is They take the top 20 % of their working staff and either you got to train them up or out to get into that 20 percentile and Unfortunately when you're a small business

John Jantsch (02:58.776)

Right, right.

John Jantsch (03:15.918)

Mm-hmm.

Tommy Mello (03:21.582)

like I was for a decade, longer than that actually. I didn't know what good was. And you know what I used to tell people, John, I used to tell people, if you got a garage, you're my client. And I've quickly, over the last, I'd say seven years, realized that not everybody with a garage door is my client. The people that are price shopping, you could only have three things. My dad taught me this. You could have the cheapest, the best quality, or on your timeline.

You can never give all three. It's impossible to give all three. So I decided a decade ago, I'm not going to be the cheapest. I'm going get out there today when they need me the most and I'm going to do a quality job with a drug tested background, trustworthy person that can be alone with your wife and kids. And that's what we've done. And I think to be the cheapest is a race to the bottom.

John Jantsch (04:11.726)

Yeah. You got to throw all that other stuff out. Right. So you, you talk about in your writing and, and when we talked before, you know, about kind of struggling a little bit before you kind of turned the corner and, and, you know, figured out how to really scale was that, there any, were there any kind of pivotal moments or pivotal things that really made you, you know, you feel like, you know, kind of made the light bulb come on and, know, really lead to success.

Tommy Mello (04:41.112)

Yeah, this right here, I know not everybody's watching, but the way my trucks were branded, this was my original truck. It was just a white truck with stenciling on it. Then I got a better wrap that was pretty good. And then I got this one that's absolutely phenomenal. And this other, the brand new wrap I got, and this had to be about five years ago. It was done by Dan Ancinelli from Kick Charge.

And it doesn't have a lot of logos like the BBB and Yelp and Angie's List on it. It doesn't have anything. It doesn't even have a phone number on it. It's a billboard. People can only read five words as they're driving by. So anybody that puts these 18 words on there and says, you know, call now to get your appointment and this QR code, they're driving by. So once you get your brand dialed in and now my signature on my email looks like my catalog.

John Jantsch (05:10.02)

Yeah.

Tommy Mello (05:33.626)

Looks like my website, looks like my yard signs, looks like my billboards. And then I've got a jingle that's the same everywhere. So that was a big piece of it. I think people don't understand a part of marketing is your brand. And brand is, you know, some people take them and they differentiate them a little bit, but I think it starts with your brand. And what is your core values and what do you stand for? What can you prove you're known for? Like you can't say I'm the best. You can say out of the last thousand jobs, 998.

Started on time and two of them got rectified within 48 hours and those are facts and your kpi should be driven towards the consumer Obviously your financial department's going to have kpis like what's your conversion rate and average ticket or what you know balancing income statement and all a lot of great Data about what's good for us, but we need to start thinking about what's good for our clients and The biggest thing i've Is most companies i've invested in most companies that i've coached

I find most of their opportunity in their call center, where their leads are coming into. My mom used to answer phones for me, John, and she, sometimes I felt like she was having phone sex. She's never, I don't think had phone sex, but she'd be like, my God, honey, I am so sorry. It was like crazy. She'd be like apologizing and empathy and just, honey, I am so, we're gonna get this fixed. I'm gonna send out my best technician. This is like 15 years ago.

John Jantsch (07:01.624)

Ha

Tommy Mello (07:01.914)

I show up to these houses John and the people would give me a hug and they'd be like this is the best company I've ever talked to like Whoever that lady was she would never say she's my mother, but she brag about me She's I'm gonna send out our best technician this guy. He's a handsome devil and shit, she never says she's my mom and I show up and there was putty in my hands like the client would say whatever you guys say to do We're gonna do it. We've never heard of anybody take a call like that

And so I think the contact center, there's a lot of opportunities. And that's operational, right? But marketing needs to go through all the way through to where I collect the cash. And even after I get the review and we do business to get in the future. And I think people miss that.

John Jantsch (07:45.604)

You know, I listen to you talk about, mean, obviously your mom was very invested in the success of the business, in your success personally. How do you get employees to feel like, I'm an essential part. mean, a lot of times people answer the phone, they're like, hey, I'm just putting in my time. You know, I don't get to see that profit necessarily. mean, you know, all the things people can delude themselves with. So how do you get people, you know, everybody bought in it? Cause I know that's been a big part of what you've really preached.

in terms of really building a company culture.

Tommy Mello (08:19.514)

There's a simple phrase called what's in it for them. And I'm not into tenure. I'm not in an hourly pay. I'm in a performance pay. And if you set the guidelines and it's fair and it's distinguishable, meaning that it's not based on somebody's opinion, performance pay, what'll happen? And I want to be very careful here for your listeners. If you switch to performance pay, you'll probably lose 80 % of your staff because they'd like to get paid hourly.

They love to get paid, you know, come and do my job and be done. But when you come up with ways to say what's in it for them, how can I have them win more? And look, everybody's like, how do you even start that? Well, you just take your historical data. Like this person's booking 62%. At first, you got to know KPIs and have data accuracy. There's got to be some type of data compliance to make sure that it's accurate. And see, if I got them up, like right now we'll do 300 million, right, next year. For every percent we increase,

John Jantsch (09:14.328)

Mm-hmm.

Tommy Mello (09:16.346)

The booking rate, that's $3 million of revenue to the company. At 20%, that's an extra $600,000 to the EBITDA. And so I'm a mathematical guy, right? So I'm always doing math and coming up with formulas and saying, does this get the right behavior I'm shooting for? And if I share some of it with them, the company and, you know, I win really big, but I allow them to feel like they're winning really big too in comparison. Because if you're making $17 an hour, I can pay people $45 an hour.

and still be winning. And how easy is it, do you think, for me to recruit A-plus players when I can pay that much? It's like taking candy from a baby. It's like, why would he pay that much? Well, he's getting people to set him up for success. And that's so important. It's just smiling on the phone and empathy and really caring. And you know, I heard this from a buddy of mine. He said, if you ever go to the Four Seasons, you'll notice that they hire people that genuinely

John Jantsch (09:52.973)

Right.

Tommy Mello (10:16.238)

Genuinely do care like they don't just say hey, how are you today sir? Nice to see you. See you later They say listen is there anything I can do to make your stay better I'll tell you this I got to stay it for seasons and in the past They might tell you a story to say it was so magical for me and my family After that day I knew I wanted to work here and my goal is to make sure that this is the best experience you ever have to look you in the eyes They'll walk you to the bathroom if you ask for a question

John Jantsch (10:17.763)

Yeah.

Tommy Mello (10:43.108)

They'll open up a restaurant that's closed to make you something themselves that they have the opportunity to do that. And that's what I think is that we talk so much about marketing, about making the phone ring. And I talk about stacking the deck on the other side by recruiting A plus people on your team.

John Jantsch (10:59.214)

Talk a little bit about that concept of recruiting versus creating, you know, A plus team. Obviously, if somebody is already a proven superstar salesperson, they're, you're going to pay for it, right? You know, to recruit them perhaps. Whereas I know you spend a lot of time and energy actually training and teaching and creating A players. Talk a little bit about that, the difference between those two ideas.

Tommy Mello (11:28.288)

I do think there's certain things that look for I hire for personality. So I contact tonality. Can you tell a great story to you smile a lot when I take you and your wife or husband out to dinner. But I find that you guys get along well because if there's problems at home there's more likely going to be problems when you come to work because you're trying to kind of put yourself out of a fire that you just got into at home. But what we do is we train train train train train we role play.

John Jantsch (11:32.664)

Mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (11:50.532)

You

Tommy Mello (11:56.174)

And we just focus on these attributes of like believe in yourself. The first thing you need to do is believe in yourself. And that's what eye contact tonality smiling is, is believing in yourself. And I'm not Starbucks. I can't hire people to save them, to start looking through their lens differently. It's so hard to do that. It takes years. It takes years. Sometimes people go into the military, very unorganized, come out very, very organized, but that takes sometimes four to eight years. So I try to find the right canvas.

And then I try to teach these things like the words we use. We never say, this is how much it costs. We say the investment would be this. It is an investment. It's the number one ROI on your home. The number one investment more than your kitchens or bathrooms is your garage. Remodel magazine six years in a row, an unbiased third party. So we teach them the words to say, we monitor this. We've got systems that record the whole conversation in the garage with the client. That's for the client's best interest, but it's also to coach.

We say kneel down when you're doing when you're presenting you don't want to be above the customer because you make them feel inferior There's a lot of things that we try to do and when I played football We did two a days we practiced ten times a week to play one game So in business, why shouldn't we do the same thing or should we go after you train? You're just gonna go practice on the customer's house forever And I don't know about you, but I like nice things that last I've gone with the cheapest

to fix my house when I did a remodel in 2012. I'll never go at the best price again. Because I had to redo the roof after five years. I'm on my third AC unit. I just want the best. I don't want to have to worry about it. think homeowners are smart. They're like, you know what? What's the... And what if you had a magic moment where you said, you know what I care about the most? I care that my kids could go to school. And I care that my wife makes it to work on time. Because that's what we miss today.

So you called the best option. This is to keep the kids coming to school on time and make sure your wife gets to work. And there's these magic moments and you title the estimates exactly what the client cares about. And you title it, this is the one that'll give you the best investment for moving in five years and making sure you're graduate or last. Because they say, I'm gonna move in five years. So you say, listen, we don't need you to do the Taj Mahal. Out of the five options, let's do number four.

John Jantsch (14:03.428)

you

John Jantsch (14:27.62)

I actually recently put in two new garage door openers and it's been a while since I had replaced one and they've gotten a lot more technical. There's a heck of lot of bells and whistles in those things. mean, the price range is, you know, three, four X. You you can buy the cheapest one to the Taj Mahal. It's gotten a lot more sophisticated, hasn't it?

Tommy Mello (14:51.352)

Yeah, now you know, that's the deal. They got the my queue. The the opener's got a brain. And the brain will tell you know we've we've worked out a pretty good opportunity with the manufacturer that will know if you got a problem before you do and will just come out. We guarantee one hour service that if something it's got this thing called a force adjustment, so if it comes down on something or comes off track, will know about it. And.

John Jantsch (14:54.936)

Yeah. Yeah.

John Jantsch (15:11.736)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy Mello (15:17.464)

That's gotta be nice for you because before you know that you got a problem or showing up saying let us look at everything and make sure everything's okay.

John Jantsch (15:24.324)

Yeah. My favorite attribute is I know when the door opens. And so, you know, I'll be in here and I have my office in my house and my wife will go grocery shopping. I know it's time to go down there and get the groceries out of the car. I don't even have to hear it. Talk a little bit about skilled labor. mean, people, you know, people aren't coming out of high school today thinking I want to go be a carpenter or, you know, whatever electrician.

Tommy Mello (15:38.36)

Yeah, that was great.

John Jantsch (15:53.39)

nearly enough, I think, to meet the demand. So what have you done to, really kind of shore up that you hire for, like you say, you know, personality or fit, but they still have to be able to install something. They still have to be able to fix something. What are you doing to kind of shore up that, that end of it?

Tommy Mello (16:11.874)

Well, we spend 12 % of our revenue on marketing, okay? So if we do 25 million, we're spending a few million dollars a month in marketing. So we're in Val Pak, all over website optimization, we, Clipper Magazine, the newspaper, PFP Deals, Angie, every lead aggregator out there, we're on TV, radio, billboards. The idea is why not put the recruiting ad into some of these?

And say, at A1 Graduates, you've always known us for great service, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now we're looking for more. You want to do two in one. You want to do the marketing and the recruiting in the same message. And then you want to have this massive funnel that chops, chops, chops, chops. Every time it chops down to this smaller amount, it's refining, refining, refining, refining. Here's what I do know. Artificial intelligence and robotics are not going to replace

Garage doors HVAC plumbing electrical roofing anytime soon. No one's gonna come out with a robot and install windows But I'll tell you what this camera stuff we're working on the the drones and the different things They're all gonna be AI AI is gonna fix everything left brain AI is like handling here soon Development coding everybody said hey go into coding go into coding. Well AI is gonna fit you're not gonna have a job So these blue collar things that were shit on for a long time Like man, it was embarrassing if you were H a

John Jantsch (17:17.166)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (17:31.299)

You

Tommy Mello (17:39.194)

I do. a plumber. Now it's like you're beating your chair. You're like, I'm a plumber, baby. It's like our day. This is our time. And I think the word's getting out there. Like the average plumber is 49 years old. And now you got this amazing amount of people going, look, I don't think I was cut out to go to college and go into debt for $200,000 because I don't really know if I want to go into economics or accounting. And I don't know if my future, what the future holds there. So I do know that

John Jantsch (17:42.82)

Yeah.

Tommy Mello (18:09.238)

No one's going to be fixing anything on the home at least for a decade. I don't think this robot's going to be coming out and doing it for a while. So I think people are starting to understand that and they're starting to say, I don't want to go into debt. We pay to train you. You come to work for A1, you're to get paid a very healthy living to get trained. then if you can't make two grand a week, shame on you your first year. If you can't make three grand a week on year two, shame on you.

We're going to give you the tools. pay for the tools. We're to give you a brand new van. We're going to give you training. We're going to give you role play. We're going to make you, you know, we're going to give you a flexible schedule. We're going to make sure your wife and kids are bought in. It's typically a man going out to do the work. We've hired over 20 female technicians. Unfortunately, it's a harder job on the body than most realize, but it's a really rewarding job. And I think the more we can share the stories, we've got a full-time dream manager. Their job is to help people dream.

John Jantsch (19:06.02)

Hmm.

Tommy Mello (19:09.21)

What do you want out of life? Do you want to go on that big vacation? Do you want to buy a home or a second home or a third home? What does that mean needs to happen? Well, it means these need to be your KPIs. And when I talk to you, I just say, listen, you ever you told me you want to take your kids to Disney World First Class, let's skip all the lines. Do you realize if we just if you had a little bit higher conversion rate and I'll show you exactly what you need to do to do that, that you would make that happen this year? So you talk about

What's in it for them again? they don't care that, hey, Tommy sits down with them and he wants to make more money to the bottom line and you're gonna be on a performance improvement plan. No one cares about that. They care about like, what about me? What about my family? What about the people I care about? Like, I took a chance working for you. Why don't you teach me more? But you gotta remind them. You gotta remind them about their why and what it means to their life in the future. And hopefully you'll hire the right people that have plans. Because some people go through life

I just say I'm okay being mediocre.

John Jantsch (20:11.268)

Well, Tommy, run out of time, but I appreciate again, you stopping by. Very inspirational as always. I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duck Tape Marketing Podcast. there some place you want to invite people to find out more about? I know you've got a variety of different interests and things you're involved in, but what's the best way for people to find out more about what you're doing?

Tommy Mello (20:32.514)

Yeah, if you just go to Tommy mellow, there's no w at the end of my name. So Tommy e l l o dot com. You see all my social media, my books, everything's there. And if you go to Tommy mellow dot com for slash shop, you can do a shop tour. I don't charge anything. If you ever get find yourself in Phoenix or want to come out here. It's a great experience. It's a way to pay it forward like everybody did for me when when I was coming up in the home service home improvement space.

It's a way for me to brag on the team and it's a way for me to help you because I do believe that if you help people it comes back tenfold. I think that Zig Zayler said you could have anything you want in life if you help enough people get what they want. And I'm a true believer of that. I really am. So if anybody needs anything reach out to me. I got 80 ways from Sunday to reach me. I've got a full-time team, a massive team these days that make sure that it gets that I'm aware of the comments and questions. So

I appreciate this podcast and I'm looking forward to having you on.

John Jantsch (21:34.583)

Likewise, we're gonna record back to back today. again, thank you for taking a few moments to share with our audience and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

Tommy Mello (21:44.42)

Sounds great, appreciate you.

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Solving the Marketing Leadership Gap for Small Business

Solving the Marketing Leadership Gap for Small Business written by Jarret Redding read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I tackle a critical topic that small businesses face today: the marketing leadership gap. Many small businesses struggle with disconnected marketing efforts, scattered strategies, and stagnant growth, not due to a lack of tactics but because they lack marketing leadership to tie it all together.

As we look ahead to the future of marketing in 2025, I dive into why traditional solutions—like hiring agencies or fractional CMOs—often fall short and what businesses must do to implement a long-term marketing strategy that drives sustainable business growth. This episode uncovers how a marketing system combined with leadership can transform small businesses into scalable, successful enterprises.

 

Key Takeaways:

• Most small businesses fail at marketing not because of a lack of tools or tactics but because of a marketing leadership gap.
• Strong marketing leadership ensures all efforts align with business goals and drive measurable growth.
• Fix foundational issues first: improve messaging, optimize your website, and focus on building trust through content marketing.
• Implement a repeatable marketing system that delivers consistent, long-term results.
• Treat marketing as an asset, not a cost, to increase business value and make your company more attractive for future opportunities.
• Marketing leadership as a service (e.g., fractional CMOs) offers small businesses and agencies an affordable way to gain strategic guidance.
• AI can improve marketing execution but cannot replace the leadership and strategy required for success.
• Agencies should shift their approach to think like architects of marketing systems, not just contractors executing tasks.
• Businesses must focus on long-term marketing strategies instead of quick, disconnected efforts.
• Closing the marketing leadership gap will help small businesses achieve sustainable business growth and success in 2025 and beyond.

Chapters:

• [01:50] The Leadership Gap in Marketing
• [02:57] Why Marketing Leadership Matters
• [03:39] Steps to Fix Marketing Leadership Gap
• [08:48] Marketing Leadership as a Service

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by

Nobody does data better than Oracle. Train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half of the cost of other clouds. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive at Oracle.

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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John Jantsch (00:01.04)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duck Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and no guest today. I am doing a solo show. Let's call this Solving the Marketing Leadership Gap for Small Business. How's that sound like for a lofty title? Now I could also, we're ending, depending upon when you're listening, we're coming to the end of 2024. I could also title this what I think the future of marketing is, whether you're an agency or whether you're a small business owner trying to market your

business. Let me ask you this. Have ever felt your marketing stuck? Have you ever told your agency marketing stuck? Like it's disconnected, it's scattered, it's not driving growth. Look, you're not alone. I hear that every single day. So that's what we're going to talk about. Why I think that happens and what your business can do to fix it. We're going to explore an issue. I'm not selling anything today. We're going to explore an issue that I probably will be selling.

solutions more directly for, but I want to get, I want to dive into what I think is at the crux of where we're going. There's a lot. I've said this earlier in my, I did do a 2025 trends post and I've said this a lot. think 2025 is going to make 2020, the change of 2024 pale in comparison. I think we're going to see so much change that happens with businesses and we're already seeing it. I'm hearing from agencies.

and business owners saying, hey, something's going on out there. I'm not getting the leads. I'm not getting the traffic to my website. So I think we're going to see a big shift in the winners and the losers, if I can say it that way. So look, hopefully you've got some big goals for your business, but here's the missing thing. You're lacking internal marketing leadership to guide those goals.

Let me focus on that word again, leadership. You might have internal marketing, you might have internal marketing hires, you might have hired an agency that is doing amazing job with your marketing or some aspect of your marketing, but you're lacking leadership. You've got a website, maybe you're running some ads, posting on social media, but nothing feels very connected and you're not really seeing the results, right? So the traditional solutions, I already talked about them. Hire an agency.

John Jantsch (02:27.416)

that's probably going to be very focused on execution, hire full-time marketing leader, maybe a CMO or fractional CMO, maybe pretty expensive. Right. And then the DIY, which hopefully you've realized that's a tough road, right? You don't have the time. You don't have the expertise. It's probably taking you away from the things that really do matter in your business. If you're going to move your business forward, I'm not saying marketing doesn't matter. There just might be higher payoff things that you're more suited.

to do. Most businesses fail at marketing because they lack not because they lack tactics, but they fail because they lack leadership really to tie it all together. And I think that that is been really a theme. Now I've, you know, for 30 years, certainly the 20 plus years I've been doing this podcast, I've been talking about strategy before tactics, and that is a big piece of it. But there's also a leadership

component. I think you need somebody to take ownership of that strategy and sure that really every marketing effort aligns with your growth goals. It's not about doing more. It's about doing the right things in the right order. Number one, developing a marketing strategy, but then having somebody that is there to help you fix the foundational issues really to tie it all together to orchestrate it. A lot of times, you know, when we start working with somebody,

before we can really do much for them in terms of growth or even in brand is we have to get their messaging right. We have to actually, in most cases, redo their brochure website and turn it actually into a sales asset. We have to talk about content that is educational and trust building. And once we get through that foundation, then we need to actually build a repeatable marketing system. One that ensures you're not just throwing money at the next new thing.

You're building a machine that works long term. So that's the component that I think marketing leadership brings. It's not just somebody that says, this is what we ought to do. This is how we ought to price it. This is how we ought to talk about our products and services. That's great to have that strategy, that component. But you also need somebody who is really then orchestrating on that. So breaking it down, you need the strategy first, right? Clear path, aligned goals, customer needs.

John Jantsch (04:54.82)

Identify what's missing, what needs fixing. Then you need to have those foundational issues fixed. Then you need to build a system. And then you actually need to start thinking about marketing as an asset in your business. And by that, mean, you need to start hiring and training a team to take over and keep that system running. that's, know, if you think about it, if you went out there and hired, you were at a point where you're like, gosh, we need to take marketing seriously. We need to hire some marketing leadership.

we need to hire a marketing manager. We need to hire a marketing fractional CMO. Well, that person would come in and hopefully you develop a strategy and nine times out of 10 there, they'd say, okay, who are we going to get to do the work? Because I'm, I'm not writing the emails. That's not my job. and so whether it's going to be a third party or you're going to actually bring somebody, in and hire and train those OREX or have your marketing leader hire and train those folks. that's really what I think the

I think that the agency model today is just what I'm starting to call marketing leadership as a service. So that includes strategy development, foundation fixes, then installing that system and then training and handing off into your business somebody who can actually run that system. That's the piece that's really been missing. know, people have either hired somebody one off, didn't really know what to tell them to do. They got a little result, but it seemed

seem like they weren't getting anything or they've hired an agency. Same thing. Nobody was directing them. Or maybe they've hired somebody to come in and build a strategy, but then nobody to really execute that. So, marketing leadership, I believe, is the missing link for most small businesses. And I believe that agencies today, if you are an agency, a consultant, marketing strategist out there listening, this idea of selling marketing leadership

as a service, I hope actually set some bells off and in some cases alarm bells, because this is what the market needs. And I think that you're going to find not only are people going to want it, they're going to want to pay a premium or expect to pay a premium for that person who can bring leadership. AI cannot provide strategy. AI cannot provide leadership. Agencies need to start thinking like

John Jantsch (07:17.368)

architects as opposed to contractors don't do the work. AI is actually going to do a lot of the specialized work. But that leadership component that is executing on a strategy that is building a marketing system, that's what's missing. And I've been saying marketing is a system, as I said, for 25 years. However, we're really getting to the point where that's a very tangible idea. For a lot of folks,

It's still even though they agreed with me marketing is a system It felt like a vague idea because really what you were doing was plugging people in to do things And it felt very much like traditional marketing but I believe that we are on the crux of or the what's a better way to say that the precipice. that's a good word precipice of This idea that we can in fact finally install a marketing system

in a business because of AI and because we are taking this idea as marketing leadership, as a service, as the missing ingredient. So next time you feel like your marketing isn't working, ask yourself, do I have any leadership? Do I have a system in place to make it work? If not, that's the first thing you need to fix. But if this conversation resonated with you, stay tuned. We are going to in 2025.

have a very set step one, step two, step three, step four, that really focuses on positioning what we do as bringing this to small midsize businesses. So stay tuned. If you like this idea, if you're an agency consultant, if you're a business owner and you like this idea, just reach out to John at ducttapemarketing.com and tell me you like the idea, you want to hear more. And I will tell you how we can actually build marketing as an asset in your business, not

as a cost, not as an expense in your business. It actually can be something that will make your business more valuable, not just because you'll grow revenue and get more customers, because you'll be able to show somebody. Let's say you want to exit your business, you'll be able to show somebody here's how our marketing system works. And that can be one of the most valuable things you can do in your business. So take care. If you're listening to this post 2025, have a happy new year.

John Jantsch (09:41.372)

Happy end of the year and let's make 2025 rock. Hopefully we'll see you one of these days out there on the road.

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Weekend Favs December 14th

Weekend Favs December 14th written by Jordan E read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but I encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one I took on the road.

• Clay: A data enrichment platform that automates lead research and integrates with CRMs for personalized outreach.
• Unify: A pipeline generation tool that combines intent data, AI research, and automation for outbound prospecting.
• Signals: An AI-powered platform that identifies ready-to-buy accounts and automates customer engagement.

These are my weekend favs; I would love to hear about some of yours – Connect with me on Linkedin!

If you want to check out more Weekend Favs you can find them here.

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How the Right Creators Can Transform Your B2B Marketing

How the Right Creators Can Transform Your B2B Marketing written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with Nick Bennett

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Nick Bennett, a pioneering expert in B2B influencer marketing who’s reshaping how companies approach digital marketing strategies. As a co-founder of TACK and author of B2B Influencer Marketing: Work With Creators to Generate Authentic and Effective Marketing, Bennett reveals the transformative power of authentic creator partnerships in today’s competitive business landscape.

The conversation uncovers a critical shift in B2B marketing: moving from traditional, corporate-driven approaches to a more human-centric, creator-powered strategy that drives real business results. Bennett’s insights demonstrate how the right creators can become powerful catalysts for brand awareness, lead generation, and revenue growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Micro-Influencers Matter: The sweet spot for B2B influencers is 10,000 to 50,000 followers
• Authentic Partnerships Are Everything: Partnerships should be collaborative, not transactional
• Strategic Influencer Marketing Drives Real Results: Integrate influencer strategies into broader marketing efforts
• The Creator Economy is Transforming B2B Marketing: Leverage subject matter experts who have credible industry voice
• Technology Enables Smarter Influencer Strategies: Focus on mastering AI tools rather than fearing them

Chapters:

• [01:02] Who is Nick Bennett?
• [01:40] Defining Influencer Marketing in B2B vs B2C
• [03:51] Best Practices for B2B Marketing and Influencer Integration
• [06:48] Challenges and Misconceptions in B2B Influencer Marketing
• [08:48] Successful Product Launch with Influencer Program
• [11:34] Effectiveness and Authenticity in Influencer Partnerships
• [15:23] Navigating Global Influencer Marketing
• [18:47] Niche Focus and Controversial Content for Engagement

More About Nick Bennett: 

• Check out Nick Bennett’s Website
• Connect with Nick Bennett on LinkedIn
• Read B2B Influencer Marketing: Work With Creators to Generate Authentic and Effective Marketing by Nick Bennett

This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by

Nobody does data better than Oracle. Train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half of the cost of other clouds. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive at Oracle.

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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John Jantsch (00:01.17)

Welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Nick Bennett. He's a co-founder of TACK, a media network and go-to-market firm, helping businesses convert demand into revenue through their people-first GTM model. With over a decade of experience in B2B tech industry, Nick specializes in crafting innovative go-to-market strategies. He's also the author of a book we're going to talk about today.

John Jantsch (00:28.25)

B2B influencer marketing, work with creators to generate authentic and effective marketing. So, Nick, welcome to the show.

Nick Bennett (00:36.198)

Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.

John Jantsch (00:38.69)

So let's define influencer marketing. I suspect that people would have different definitions of what that means or perceptions of what that is. How do you describe it when you tell somebody about your book and they say, what's influencer marketing?

Nick Bennett (00:42.748)

.

Nick Bennett (00:53.2)

Yeah, so I think in B2B, it's a little bit different than B2C. I think that's the first thing that we have to tackle. But in B2B specifically, I think an influencer is someone who holds authority or credibility within a specific industry. So they could be a subject matter expert, they could be a creator, they could be a practitioner. There are people who share valuable insights. They have a loyal, engaged following of an audience on different social media platforms.

John Jantsch (00:56.474)

Yes. Yeah.

John Jantsch (01:19.302)

So I think a lot of people, especially when you talk about in the B2C world, naturally think of Peyton Manning, Kim Kardashian, I don't know, some of the folks that show up that way. But really, I'm guessing in the B2B space, it might be somebody you've never heard of, but 1,000 people think that he or she knows everything. mean, is that kind of micro audience pretty significant?

Nick Bennett (01:43.484)

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's the big thing in B2B. It's not the million person follower counts that matter. It's that kind of like 10,000 to 50,000 follower range. That is like the sweet spot in B2B.

John Jantsch (01:58.19)

In fact, would you go as far as saying, I know this is a blanket statement, so there's holes in it, but would you go as far as saying that traditional celebrity endorsements really are not going to work in B2B?

Nick Bennett (02:10.414)

absolutely. I've

Nick Bennett (02:11.554)

seen B2B companies try to specifically at events and it just hasn't worked, which is why I think so many people are turning to working with creators. And I should mention there is a difference between creators and influences. So everyone can become a creator. You and I are both creators, but not every creator has influence. in B2B, you shouldn't self-dub yourself in influence. So just like B2C, people can do that because it's just what is known, but there's such a misunderstanding of

Nick Bennett (02:38.714)

what a creator and what an influencer is in B2B. And that's everything that I've been trying to battle for the last couple of years.

John Jantsch (02:45.744)

Yeah, it's really more than to get somebody excited. Like you bring to your CMO, we need to do influencer marketing in all sense. Like, no, you know, that's not for us, right?

Nick Bennett (02:54.908)

Exactly.

John Jantsch (02:57.327)

So what are some of the best practices or strategies that B2B marketers should employ?

Nick Bennett (03:02.362)

Yeah, well, I think it's figuring out what are the outcomes that you want to achieve. And so when you think about, know, hey, I'm going to deploy this as a tactic because it's interesting. Creators and influencers can be used as its own channel, but it can also be used as a tactic within other channels that you're already running, like events and social and things like that. So I think it's understanding what are, what does success mean for us?

Nick Bennett (03:29.742)

in aligning your goals around that. So when I think of like, what are the core KPIs of what success actually means, it could be engagement metrics. So again, if you're going to go on LinkedIn, for example, and partner with people to drive brand awareness, you care about the likes, the comments, the shares, how many people are driving traffic to my website. If you care about reaching impressions, hey, I'm trying to get into manufacturing, tech for manufacturing. It's like, I care about

Nick Bennett (03:58.588)

the size of the audience reach within that specific industry. Then you've got the lead gen side, which is like, all right, number of inquiries, signups, pipeline growth. Like you could use that for a PLG motion. And then revenue impact. Are you directly or influencing sales as someone that is promoting a service? Cause it's not like B2C where it's like, Hey, go buy this, you know, $20 hair straightener. It's, Hey,

Nick Bennett (04:22.298)

you don't go buy this $50,000 piece of tech that you're going to use in your stack. It's a big difference. And so a lot of people, unfortunately, are promoting stuff and they're not using it. And so you build trust with your audience and then you promote stuff and they believe you. And it just leaves a lot of people disappointed. So when I look to partner with brands or I'm working to build programs,

Nick Bennett (04:46.3)

you have to use the product. I'm not saying you have to use it for years, but you can't just go into a partnership without using the product.

John Jantsch (04:54.064)

So you mentioned different metrics, so there would be different objectives possibly, right? I mean, somebody might want to create awareness. like, I'm going to sponsor this podcast so people start hearing about us. Or I'm going to sponsor this techie webinar because I want to create demand. mean, would that be a true statement?

Nick Bennett (05:16.056)

Absolutely. And I think it's a great way when you can figure out, multiple, it's, you don't want to silo things. So when you can make it part of a larger part of your integrated strategy, makes sense. I'll give you good example of that. I had an old podcast called the anonymous market and it's no longer going, but Google actually used to sponsor that podcast. And I was like, all right, why would Google want to sponsor my podcast? You know, it's, it was Google cloud and we ended up integrating it into a lot of different pieces. So there was the podcast, there was the social media aspect.

John Jantsch (05:39.12)

Yeah.

Nick Bennett (05:45.808)

There was actually webinars. So it was a much more than like, hey, we just want to sponsor the podcast to get more awareness out there. Like they don't need the awareness. They were trying to tap into specific audiences in certain parts of the, the U S actually.

John Jantsch (06:00.048)

Yeah, yeah. So what have you found are some of the challenges or limitations of B2B? So we talked a little bit about best practices, but what are some of the realities in some of the limitations for B2B companies?

Nick Bennett (06:15.3)

I think a lot of people just still don't know how this works or how that you should be operating or building a program from this. Like so, so often I talk to CMOs and founders and they're like, I want to do influence of marketing. And I'm just like, okay, like, what do you want to do? And they're just like, I don't know. I want to do a LinkedIn post. Now the issue is you're going to go partner with say five people, do a LinkedIn post. You're going to get some hype that, that day. Maybe you're launching on product taunts or you're doing new product, whatever it is. The issue is.

Nick Bennett (06:43.77)

a lot of brands don't do anything with that content after they have that lightning strike for that one day. And then everything goes away because just like, just like real life social media, like all that stuff disappears in about 24 hours. And so then what, and I think that's the biggest issue is so many CMOs and marketing leaders are disappointed in their spend because they're like, it's not, it's not impacting sales. It's not impacting, you know, signups. And it's just like, you can't just do a one-off thing and think it's going to change the world here. This is something that

Nick Bennett (07:13.402)

It has to become a program and it has to be bought in from the top down and be part of your integrated strategy.

John Jantsch (07:20.814)

Yeah, and really, you know, I've heard a lot of people talk about, know, especially in B2B, that you're not looking at this as an endorsement. It's more of a partnership, right?

Nick Bennett (07:29.436)

And you nailed that word partnership because that's still what people still aren't sure. just like, I want to do a one-off thing. It's very transactional. And one of the things that I work on in championing it as well is people first. it's like, okay, people first, the core of what people first actually means is partner driven, ecosystem driven. so creators and influencers play a big piece of that.

Nick Bennett (07:53.542)

But it's still, there's so much education that still has to be done because we're very much in the early adopter phase, at least in tech for B2B.

John Jantsch (08:02.534)

So I'll put you on the spot a little bit. Can you think of a, could you give an example of what, you know, what a typical successful campaign like this would look like? mean, pick whatever medium or you don't have to even name names. You can even just kind of give us a, you know, a fake case study.

Nick Bennett (08:19.386)

Yeah, no, no, I have a real one I can use for sure. So we actually partnered with a company called Path Factory. They're in the of kind of content repository world, but they were building an AI product, know, surprise, everyone's building an AI product. And it was like an, exactly. And it was an AI chat bot. And so they were launching that, but they had to launch it.

John Jantsch (08:21.669)

Okay.

John Jantsch (08:34.086)

Even if they aren't.

Nick Bennett (08:44.302)

literally in a two week window because they were acquiring another company and they needed like they needed this product to fit in here before they announced the acquisition of that company. So they came to us and one of the things they said, you hey, we need you to build the whole brand narrative positioning messaging, but we also want you to build an influencer program to be able to get the awareness out there because it was kind of like a PLG play. So it was part PLG, like they needed the signups, but they also needed the awareness piece of it.

John Jantsch (08:48.848)

Mm.

Nick Bennett (09:13.764)

And within a week, I was able to get them about 15 people. were like, listen, I have a $5,000 budget on what we can spend on paying these creators to create LinkedIn posts. was solely LinkedIn. And I went out, found these people, got their approval, built this entire program. We went live and it was one of their most successful launches that they've had. And it's actually still going really, really well. And now they've actually adopted an entire.

Nick Bennett (09:39.63)

influencer program and they're hiring an actual person to like manage this all for them now. But we did the whole thing in two weeks from like start to finish and it was like, I don't recommend anyone do that. with what we had to do, I'm very happy with the results.

John Jantsch (09:48.688)

Yes.

John Jantsch (09:52.72)

Yeah, right.

John Jantsch (09:58.726)

So one of the challenges probably is fit, AT &T sponsored my, I'm just gonna say this, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it, AT &T sponsored my podcast for about a year and I wasn't really a fan of AT &T, frankly. I probably wasn't a great fit. I mean, I didn't do anything to tarnish the brand or anything, but I didn't have any passion for it. How much of that do you believe needs to be there?

John Jantsch (10:28.518)

Does somebody need to be a champion or does somebody need to, or is it basically, if they're going to pay me, I'll say what they need me to say.

Nick Bennett (10:36.444)

Well, the issue is there's so many people that are now under the mindset where, if they're going to pay me, I didn't realize I could get paid for this type of stuff, which is, which is hurting a lot of the original people that have been doing this like me and others. Exactly. And that's the issue because then it's, it's false advertising because you don't use the product. You're promoting it. I'm going to go buy that. And then I'm going to be mad that, you know, Joe told me to go buy this and now it's a terrible product, but

John Jantsch (10:44.024)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (10:48.624)

Yeah, they were just like, I love this product. You should see it. Right.

John Jantsch (11:01.168)

Right?

Nick Bennett (11:04.9)

In my mind, and what I tell everyone that I work with, and even in the book, it's like, you have to believe in the mission. Maybe it's not the mission of the company, but the mission of the category. Because if you're not a believer of the category and what you're looking to solve, then you're never going to be bought into anything. And like I said, you have to use the product. Because as a marketer myself, I don't partner with any brand where they won't let me use the product. And I want to see how I can fit it into my regular life.

John Jantsch (11:28.974)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nick Bennett (11:32.132)

I did just one recently with this company called Tango, small company, but they basically, what they do is they help you create, you know, SOPs for different. Yeah. And fantastic product. And so like, I started using it because I'm just a two person business and we have worked with a lot of contractors and I started to map out all these things. I was like, wow, this is fantastic. And I feel like it comes across so more human, so more authentic in the content that you create when you can actually use it.

John Jantsch (11:38.66)

Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with it, yeah, Yep.

John Jantsch (11:58.192)

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree 100%. In the early days of influencer marketing, it was, know, people were used to controlling the message, right? And so in the early days, people were very freaked out by the fact that, somebody else is gonna, who's not an employee is gonna talk about us and we're gonna pay him. You know, how much risk or exposure, you know, do people still feel is a part of this?

Nick Bennett (12:07.1)

Thank

Nick Bennett (12:22.448)

I don't think there's much anymore. Every brand that I've worked with and talked to, they have ultimately write a refusal on like, does the content go live or not? But they are lessening the guardrails and they say, listen, I want you to bring your creative freedom. That's why we're paying to work with you. We don't wanna dictate what you should write because that's not human. so every...

Nick Bennett (12:46.384)

I'm working on one right now where I'm going through and I'm kind of thinking about it and I sent it to the brand and they were like, well, we want you to spin it more like this. And I was just like, no, that's not how this works because you're trying to dictate my point of view, which is that that's not how I feel. And so we actually ended up ending the partnership because they were trying to put words in my mouth a little bit and I didn't want those words to come out.

John Jantsch (13:05.851)

Mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (13:10.01)

Yeah. Yeah. I personally, we do a lot of sponsors on this show and I personally like it when a brand says, here's the talking points, but we want you to say it like you would say it as opposed to read this script. I, and personally, I know for a fact, comes off more authentic when I just make it up. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Bennett (13:29.756)

100%. I'm the same way. I feel like

Nick Bennett (13:31.787)

it's it's so much more conversational versus like, you robotic. It's like, it's just like, you know, AI has made content creation so easy today. It's so easy to spot on social media what's written with AI and not. So we don't, we don't need that when people are, you know, doing podcasts, webinars, things like that.

John Jantsch (13:44.358)

Mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (13:50.372)

Yeah. Yeah. Especially the comments on LinkedIn. Those are painful. What about the international market? I know that, you again, sometimes, you know, you're in your little bubble, you know, who the people in your space are, you know, you start going out globally. How do you find those? How do you connect? You know, maybe in some cases, you know, you've got obviously language, you know, issues or not issues, but challenges. So how, you know, how do you, how do brands kind of

Nick Bennett (13:52.86)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (14:20.154)

manage that if that's goal.

Nick Bennett (14:23.534)

Yeah, I think it's something they're still trying to figure out. There's one brand in particular called Cognizm. They're like a data provider in the UK, and they do influencer marketing really, really well. They've been doing it for like seven years. Fantastic job. They have an entire program. But they were running into a similar issue where they were like, it's hard to find people globally if you're based in another part of the world. And it's just like, what if you know...

John Jantsch (14:30.704)

Mm-hmm.

Nick Bennett (14:49.936)

The way I talk about something is not the same way that you talk about something. How do you get that to come across in a different tone? but marketplaces have made it really easy to, find people to partner with. And that was something that was always lacking in B2B and B2C. You could go find influencer marketing, you know, marketplaces like, Hey, I want to find someone that talks about AI and tech. Boom. Here's a hundred people that I could go partner with through this platform. Now B2B hasn't really had that up until about.

Nick Bennett (15:19.67)

six months or eight months ago. So many have tried, but they couldn't figure out how to monetize that. And now a few brands have created these marketplaces where they play matchmaker. And they pair, regardless of where you are in the world, you with different types of creators based on the filters that you want. And I've been waiting for this for so long because outside of that, you just had to go on LinkedIn or X and find these people and just send them a cold message.

Nick Bennett (15:46.714)

And these platforms have made it a lot easier to facilitate the outreach, to facilitate the campaign actually happening, the reporting, all of that stuff.

John Jantsch (15:56.304)

So let's flip it around a little bit. I've been talking mostly about how businesses would use this. But if I'm a content creator and I think, hey, I want to get in on this influencer action, how do I get myself identified as a potential influencer?

Nick Bennett (16:09.946)

You just got to show up every single day. So I've been creating LinkedIn on LinkedIn now for five years, every single day. think most I've taken a couple of weeks off over the last five years, mostly around the holidays or if I went on vacation, but I have showed up every single day and it's repetition, it's consistency. think that all pays off. Like you don't have to have the biggest number of followers. I only have like 53,000 followers, but I have an engaged audience of people that actually care what I have to say.

John Jantsch (16:15.002)

Right. Yeah.

Nick Bennett (16:39.308)

And again, what I've said has changed over those five years. When I started five years ago, I was a field marketer. was an event marketer for early stage tech companies in-house doing my thing. And I would talk about that. Then I started talking about account-based marketing and customer marketing. And then about a year and a half ago, went out on my own with my partner, who was my former CMO at our last company. And now we champion everything around People First and the creator economy and things like that. But again,

Nick Bennett (17:07.312)

I've got to a point where it doesn't matter what I write or what I have to say. There's going to be people that support me. I could say the sky is blue and it's going to be still people that support me even though that adds no value, but it's because I've done it so consistently over the last five years.

John Jantsch (17:21.69)

Yeah, so you've got to move beyond hobby, amateur, to GoPro. Would you say that it's probably useful to pick a niche or to pick a point of view or to pick a very specific topic so that you can, you you may not have a million followers, but for people who do X, you you're it.

Nick Bennett (17:25.198)

Yes.

Nick Bennett (17:44.38)

It's a loaded question because there's going to be people that will debate both sides of it. I personally will say yes, because for me, as a field marketer and event marketer originally starting, that was my niche and it was so impactful the amount of DMs I got from people that was like, hey, I can relate. Thank you. Now, there is some people that say, you don't need to just talk about whatever you want.

John Jantsch (17:48.42)

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Bennett (18:08.92)

It's again, going back to AI, AI has made it so easy to create content. You're not going to stand out if you just talk about random stuff and you're just starting out. You have to have a strong POV and you have to stand for something. And if you don't stand for something and cannot kind of add your own spin to it, you're just going to get lost in all those other people that just, you know, throwing up posts every once in a while.

John Jantsch (18:29.54)

Yeah, yeah, there's no question. mean, you, you, you see it all the time. The people who have the most reactions, positive and negative, you know, are saying stuff that's kind of polarizing. Right.

Nick Bennett (18:39.324)

Yeah, it's

Nick Bennett (18:40.524)

you know, there's there's this guy out there. You know, he's he's fantastic person Adam Robinson He's the founder of our RB to be and he always puts controversial stuff on LinkedIn and like he'll start like LinkedIn like Beefs with people it's so so interesting. Like there's so many like LinkedIn beefs now but like he is very controversial and like there's people that will go off like negatively in his stuff and positive but

John Jantsch (18:55.493)

Yeah.

Nick Bennett (19:05.68)

He gets so much engagement on every single one of his posts because people know like, Adam's gonna post something that is gonna like set some people off.

John Jantsch (19:14.842)

Yeah, that's funny. I often sometimes this can come off as a lame question, but I often like to kind of wrap up interviews with talking about giving you an opportunity to talk about like what's next? What's coming? You know, for what's the future look like?

Nick Bennett (19:28.764)

Yeah, you know, honestly, I should say, you know, I had no intention of ever writing a book when the publisher reached out and was like, hey, you want to write a book? This was a year and a half ago. And I was like, not really. And they convinced me to do it. And I missed so many deadlines. I have three small kids. I have a six year old and 19 month old twin girls. And so I was like,

John Jantsch (19:46.296)

wow.

Nick Bennett (19:50.148)

yeah, you know, I'll do it. And then I missed multiple deadlines. They canceled the book on me twice. They're like, you're not taking this seriously enough. was like, well, hold on. I never wanted to write the book. You guys stepped on trying to push me to do this. And so finally, you know, we're here and it's out. like, I will never write another book, at least not like a published book, maybe self-published. they are like, are on you like hawks. And for me, like, you know, tack and just everything that we're working on, like,

John Jantsch (19:58.798)

Yeah.

Nick Bennett (20:19.888)

I'll continue to champion the creator economy, but like the broader umbrella of that is people first and how do we get people to think about the company first mindset, which was like the old school way of doing things and moving to more of a human way, which again, creators and influencers plays a huge piece in, but that'll be everything that kind of, you at least for the next couple of years that I continue to push forward.

John Jantsch (20:43.408)

Well, and I think we're, you know, I've been talking a lot about, think we've been, you know, we see change every year, but I think the pace of change increases every year. And I think AI has just thrown gasoline on that, certainly. And so I think that what you're talking about is I think we're going to see, I've been doing this 30 years, and I think we're going to see a return to that, you know, people, I mean, that's, you know, all the control is going to the buyer.

John Jantsch (21:11.59)

in the marketing world and I think that the human connection is going to be more important than ever.

Nick Bennett (21:17.18)

100%. Well, and one more piece to that is like, I'm not saying that you shouldn't use AI. I use AI every day. Now, it's going to be, know, so many people, marketers are afraid that AI is going to take their job. No, it's going to be the marketers that learn how to master AI to use it to do the tasks that they don't want to do. That's who's going to take your job.

John Jantsch (21:34.726)

That's right.

John Jantsch (21:36.407)

Yeah, yeah. That's what I tell people all the time. It's not AI. It's another marketer who's just as strategic as you that's using it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Nick, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there somewhere you'd invite people to connect with you and find a copy of B2B Influencer Market?

Nick Bennett (21:38.48)

you

Nick Bennett (21:44.323)

Exactly.

Nick Bennett (21:57.338)

Yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn. I post a lot about it there. I have a bunch of links where you can find it on Amazon, Kogan Page, Barnes and Noble, all those websites. So find me on LinkedIn, DM me. Always happy to chat with new people and appreciate you having me.

John Jantsch (22:14.298)

You bet. Again, thanks for taking a few moments and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

Nick Bennett (22:19.898)

Absolutely.

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