Thursday, March 14, 2024

How To Hire a Fractional CMO

How To Hire a Fractional CMO written by Tosin Jerugba read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I go solo and dive into the trend in the marketing consultancy agency world that is: Fractional Chief Marketing Officers or CMOs.

This episode is a must-listen for business owners, marketing professionals, and consultants seeking a game-changing approach to business growth.

Key Takeaways:

I explore the game-changing concept of Fractional Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs), highlighting its cost-effectiveness compared to traditional hires. Emphasizing the importance of leading with strategy, I challenge the conventional project-based approach to marketing, advocating for a transformative focus on strategic direction. By intentionally evolving the customer journey, businesses can position themselves for sustained growth in 2024 and beyond. Tune in to discover how embracing Fractional CMOs and prioritizing strategy-first methodologies can revolutionize your marketing approach and drive long-term success.

Get Your Free AI Prompts To Build A Marketing Strategy:

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John (00:08): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch, and I'm doing a solo show. Just me, nobody else in the camera, right? All right, so I've been doing a number of shows. We do a lot of education. We license our fractional CMO system to agencies and consultants and strategists all over the world. So I thought it might be interesting. A lot of small business owner listeners here might be interesting to do one that I might call how to hire a fractional CMO. Now, you can go to duct tape marketing.com and you'll find how we talk about our fractional CMO approach. You don't really have to call it a fractional CMO, but it really is going to lead with strategy, and that's really why I call it the fractional CMO approach, because that's the implication that you're thinking at the C-suite level about your marketing, that it's going to be somewhat strategic.

(01:03): Now, what is a fractional CMO? I should start there, right? Fractional chief marketing. Now, you might not have chief anything in your organization, but you do have a marketing function, and wouldn't it be lovely to have somebody that was their core laser focus? It is a growing trend fractional everything frankly is a growing trend out there in the business world. So why not marketing? Why not bring somebody in who is going to be at the highest level thinking strategically about your marketing today? Boy, there's so many tactics. There's so many things to know, so much that's changing every single day. Having somebody that is focused on that at a very high level, I think has become really essential for any kind of business. Now, why would you consider hiring a fractional CMO? Well, probably the top line benefit is somebody that's going to bring high level strategic marketing leadership, not just ideas without the full-time cost of an executive.

(02:12): I mean, I know you're not thinking about probably hiring A CMO, but if you were, you're going to be looking at north of 200,000, north of 300,000 in some cases. For somebody that's got that kind of full-time experience, plus they're not going to write the email copy. They're going to hire people or they're going to hire people to do that. So it's a very expensive proposition, but you can actually get, I believe, an adequate amount of strategic thinking for your business without really spending anywhere near that. Well, literally a fourth maybe of that or a fifth of that. The right person, the right fractional CMO, the right consultant, whatever you want to call it, is going to bring an outside perspective with probably hopefully fresh ideas for your marketing. Now, we're going to get to how to spot the right one, but hopefully that's what somebody's going to bring you.

(03:04): A lot of times people will think, well, I'm an accounting firm or I'm a remodeling contractor. I want somebody that's got years of experience in my industry. Certainly some knowledge of your industry having worked with past clients can be a very good thing, but too deep or a specific niche only tends to actually bring kind of cookie cutter brings, like, this is what I do for this company in Des Moines. This is what I do for the one in Tokyo. This is what I do. Same exact thing, same exact approach, and some of certainly may work and been informed by years of doing that approach, but also it could be stale. There could be no innovation in it. Having somebody that's worked in a variety of industries, I think actually brings you a better potential outside perspective and fresh ideas. A lot of times marketing tactics are just kind of a like, how do we make the phone ring?

(03:57): How do we get the email? How do we do this tactic? The right fractional CMO is going to help you. Marketing strategy and business strategy are not always the same thing. In many cases, they certainly support each other. There might be some overlap, but your business strategy might differ greatly from your marketing strategy, but the right person's going to help you align your overall business goals really with your marketing objectives and hopefully keep you on track and hold you accountable for staying on track. I mean, the right one is not going to just let you say, I know we said last quarter our three priorities were X, but now we're going to go this direction. Hopefully you actually look to that person to push back a little bit on holding you to what you've really the stated objectives are. There is a bit of flexibility in this approach.

(04:46): I mean, you can scale it up. Maybe you have a seasonal business, maybe you have a business that really in the winter really almost practically shuts down. Well, this is an approach that you can scale up and scale down. I don't necessarily recommend shutting marketing off ever, but you might actually have the need to think strategically or even oversight of what you're doing might actually come down dramatically. The right person is going to actually drive marketing results and ROI with proven methodologies and best practices, they're going to be experienced. Hopefully they've actually developed some methodologies, some frameworks that they can bring and immediately bring to your business. I already mentioned this idea of holding you accountable. I think that's a big deal for a lot of businesses. It is really easy, especially if you're working or making a lot of the decisions on your own.

(05:40): It's really easy to just wander off course because seems easier to go this way. You get the idea of the week. The one last piece I want to tell you that I think is extremely important because as a business owner, as A CEO, sometimes we get very bottom line oriented. We get very, this is easier for us to do it this way. This is more efficient to do it this way, and we lose sight of what's best for the customer. Sometimes the right, I mean in a traditional organization, A CMO is going to actually be the advocate for marketing, going to be the advocate for the customer. So what if you brought a little bit of that, even a fractional little bit of that, somebody who's saying, well, why are we doing it this way? That may be easier for those two people to communicate that way, but it's not good for the customer.

(06:26): So customer experience is it's actually how you charge a premium. It's actually how you keep your customers. It's how you build momentum. So what if you had somebody that was very focused on the customer, very focused on the customer experience? Alright, let's get down to, let's say you're thinking about doing this. What would you look for in the right? I use the word right, fractional CMO. Well, first and foremost, it should be somebody that's got some expertise in track record, and by track record I mean of results. Have they helped other people get the results or move in the direction that you want to move? It's very easy to hang a shingle out and say, I'm a fractional CMO. I mean, maybe the highest level I've ever been in an organization was a marketing manager, and there's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to have Fortune 500 CMO experience.

(07:13): You're not a Fortune 500 company. I'm guessing maybe one or two of you are, but I'm guessing that you're not, and so you don't necessarily need that level. You actually need somebody who's worked in a company like yours or worked with organizations that are the size of yours or that comes of yours that are experiencing the growing pains that you're experiencing, that kind of track record, that kind of deep expertise is what you should be looking for. It doesn't hurt if they've worked with multiple companies. They've been in business for a while. But again, some of that just has to do with the track record that they can prove. Do they have case studies, references, really, that are not just saying they're nice people that really help demonstrate the ability to drive growth? I mean, is there social proof? Do they have their thought leadership published in places that would demonstrate that they do maybe know what they're talking about?

(08:09): It's my pleasure to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. Our friends at ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign helps small teams power big businesses with the must have platform for intelligent marketing automation. We've been using ActiveCampaign for years here at Duct Tape Marketing to power our subscription forms, email newsletters and sales funnel drip campaigns. ActiveCampaign is that rare platform that's affordable, easy to use, and capable of handling even the most complex marketing automation needs, and they make it easy to switch. They provide every new customer with one-on-one personal training and free migrations from your current marketing automation or email marketing provider. You can try ActiveCampaign for free for 14 days and there's no credit card required. Just visit activecampaign.com/duct tape. That's right, duct Tape Marketing podcast. Listeners who sign up via that link will also receive 15% off an annual plan if purchased by March 31st, 2024. That's active campaign.com/duct tape.

(09:14): Now, this offer is limited to new active campaign customers only. So what are you waiting for? Fuel your growth, boost revenue and save precious time by upgrading to active campaign today. Next thing I'd really be looking for is a structured, we call it strategy first, by name, by brand name, but it's still, it's an approach, right? Do they have an approach that says, well, before we get into doing X, Y, and Z, we are going to study what our strategic direction is going to be. We're going to study how we're going to differentiate. We're going to study how to narrow our target market focus. I mean, if they're not coming with that strategy first approach, and they're really just coming with saying, what do you need? What random acts of marketing do you need and not have a proven process, that's a red flag. Now, a proven process doesn't mean cookie cutter.

(10:04): It just means that a process that ticks certain boxes allows you to discover things very quickly and move in maybe new directions very quickly. That proven process that we have, a very repeatable process that we install, and what it's done is it's allowed us to get very good at delivering results very quickly, because we've done it so many times. Now, this is going to include auditing your current marketing building, hopefully a full strategic plan that you can look out in the future and say, okay, I have an idea now of not just what we're going to do next quarter, but the next quarter, the next quarter, maybe the entire year. Now, most businesses, at least the size that I work with, small, mid-size businesses, they can't really afford to hire somebody that's going to lay a plan on their desk and say, good luck. So the right or maybe the ideal fractional CMO that you might hire, marketing strategist that you might hire, would also come with execution, the ability to then actually execute the plan for as long as you need them to be there.

(11:12): Now, while I stress this idea of a proven process, there obviously needs to be some flexibility. They need to have a wide sort of depth of channels that they might play in or have an expertise or be able to bring partners to the table, expert partners to the table, because every business has, maybe this sounds cynical, 20% that's unique, 20% that really is a variant because they're B2B or B2C, or because they're a local business or a national business, or they're primarily their customers. Find them online. I mean, those are the variations that need to be taken into play. I mean, there's no question that somebody who has deep expertise for in e-commerce is probably not the same person that has deep expertise in marketing, say professional services at the local level. So you do want somebody that has certainly the ability to tailor and create a flexible engagement model for you that might involve flexible packages, but also flexible pricing.

(12:15): Not every business has the same needs. Not every business wants to run at the same speed. So certainly the ability to charge appropriately based on revenue, based on growth is something that you want to look for. Make sure that you have the strategy first approach should help you define a very clear scope of work. What's going to be a deliverable, and most importantly, how we're going to measure what we're doing. A lot of, sadly, a lot of marketing folks just throw magic fairy dust out there and print off a couple reports that don't really indicate that we're first off even tracking the right things. Somebody who's going to come in and immediately help you identify the key performance indicators, identify how you're actually going to extract that data for a lot of businesses, figuring out what their cost to acquire customers, no easy task. So somebody that is very focused on helping you not only develop the process for that, but then track and hold themselves accountable.

(13:17): If you have team, very few people have a full marketing team or anything that you would call a department ahead of marketing even, but a lot of companies have maybe one or two people that are doing marketing functions. Maybe it's social media or maybe it's producing a newsletter, or you've hired freelancers to write content or to do SEO work or something. So the right fractional CMO can help you do one of two things. Build and manage and integrate with that existing team, help you build additional resources or be able to demonstrate that they can bring their own team. A lot of times, one of the challenges with hiring marketing folks inside of your organization is if marketing's not your full-time job, which most CEOs or owners it is not, then even managing those assets, those resources, I should say inside your organization can be a real challenge or it can just be a distraction.

(14:16): So if somebody who can actually help you manage your existing team and also manage and help orchestrate all of the implementation is a great asset as well. If any of you who are listening to this have hired the SEO person content person, web person, it's as much work to manage those multiple resources, certainly as it is to get a lot of the work done. So having somebody who can help you orchestrate that, I probably don't need to say this, but certainly cultural fit chemistry, you're going to work very closely. In fact, some people come to view this role as almost a member of the team. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have to have a seat at the table in every leadership discussion, but a lot of times they will be involved in some of the deeper discussions about where you're going, about your overall business strategy.

(15:07): They're going to get into the books. I mean, they should help you understand revenue and profit and expense and your cost to acquire customers. So they're going to get deep into your business. So chemistry and cultural fit, I mean, one of the best ways probably to measure how the relationship's going to go is communication style. Understanding their communication style and how it meshes with you, how it aligns with really your values or the values of the organization indeed aren't important to try to see if you can get, so having that good rapport is, it's not everything, but it's certainly a piece that is going to make working together easier. Lastly, I would say somebody who is not talking about quick wins are important. Quick wins are nice, but long-term results oriented mindset is really what you're after. Somebody who understands where you are today, but also understands where you want to go, where you want to be, and can help guide you that as your marketing matures, so are they going to not only focus on long-term success, but then start thinking in terms of building infrastructure around marketing processes, SOPs, things that will actually scale as you start to scale the business and viewing it almost as a partnership.

(16:27): I know that's kind of cliche, but to talk about, a lot of people are like, we're partners with you, but that's how you want to view their relationship and you hope that they do as well. Alright? There's no question that marketing leadership, it can actually become one of your greatest competitive advantages if you can figure out how to do this role, right? The model itself allows you to get real business systems for a fraction of the cost. It's also, I hate to be on a negative, but it's also if the relationship doesn't work out, the fractional model is an easy one to fire as opposed to hiring somebody. So again, if any of this made sense to you, if you're thinking about this, it doesn't matter what you call it. You don't have to call it a fractional CMO if you don't want to call it that, but if you believe that your business would benefit from a strategy first approach, there's tons of information on our website about it, you can actually find, we license this methodology of ours to other consultants around the world, other agencies around the world.

(17:31): So you could find somebody there, or we'd love to talk to you about how the fractional CMO plus implementation model might work for your business. It's just duct tape marketing.com. That's D-U-C-T-A-P-E marketing.com. Love to hear your feedback always on this. It's just john@ducttapemarketing.com, and if you're a regular podcast listener, heck, if this is the first time you've listened to the podcast, we love reviews on whatever platform you listen to, the Spotifys, the apples out there of the world gives us a review. Alright? That's all. Hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.



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Wednesday, March 13, 2024

Remote Work Revolution: Drive Sustainable Growth with Virtual Teams

Remote Work Revolution: Drive Sustainable Growth with Virtual Teams written by Tosin Jerugba read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Scott Cox. Scott brings a wealth of experience in the ever-evolving world of sales and marketing, with a career spanning over a decade. Scott is best known for founding Social Reach in 2017, which is a marketing agency that caters to small business owners in varying industries.

Today, he provides business coaching, where he helps business owners grow and scale their businesses from 6 to 7 figures by implementing the right systems and processes, as well incorporating Virtual Assistants.

Key Takeaways

Scott shares insights into leveraging remote work for sustainable growth. He highlights the importance of embracing virtual teams, navigating growth challenges, and balancing automation with human interaction. Scott also discusses the potential of integrating AI technologies to enhance productivity and creativity. By building resilient businesses through remote work and technology, entrepreneurs can thrive in today’s fast-paced world.

 

Questions I ask Scott Cox:

[00:59] What made you decide to exit the agency world and become a coach?

[03:22] How do you help your customers stay ahead with the changes in Marketing?

[06:58] How do you see the world of virtual assistants giving small businesses a competitive edge?

[10:47] What are some of the hurdles that people have to overcome in order to effectively engage remote workers?

[13:51] Do you screen, place and train virtual assistants for your clients or do you just show them how to do it?

[15:57] How do you balance automation with the human touch when working with virtual assistants?

[17:55] Where can people connect with you, and learn more about your work?

More About Scott Cox:

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Work Better Now

Visit WorkBetterNow.com mention the referral code DTM Podcast and get $150 off for your first 3 months.

 

John (00:08): Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Scott Cox. He brings a wealth of experience in the ever evolving world of sales and marketing with a career spanning over a decade. Scott's best known for founding social reach in 2017, which is a marketing agency that caters to small business owners in varying industries. Today he provides business coaching where he helps business owners grow and scale their businesses from six to seven figures by implementing the right systems and processes as well as incorporating virtual assistance. So Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott (00:45): Thank you so much for having me, John. Really appreciate the time and happy to bring as much value as I can to you and your audience.

John (00:51): So let's start first, I work with a lot of agency owners and there are challenges with that business model. There are challenges in every business, in every industry. What made you decide that I'm going to get out of the agency world and become a coach?

Scott (01:04): Oh, that's a great question. I don't get asked a lot. For me, it was, as an agency provider, you're busy providing services, you're busy managing a team, and especially if you have multiple clients and if you're across different industries, it's just marketing and agencies are a chaotic world. There's just so much going on and to really do it right. And so I had typically been working with small business owners, so this is maybe mid to high six figures to low seven figures. My niche was helping those mid to high six figure business owners get to seven figures and the low seven figures get to multiple sevens and scale through those processes and all the challenges that come at that level, which are many doing. Working with that audience, there was a lot of need for my clients to solve challenges in their business that were coming from growth that were not directly related to the marketing.

(02:08): They were challenges caused because the marketing was working and bringing in new leads, new customers, new business. But then my customer was, Hey, great, but what I don't have systems. I don't have processes. I need to hire people. And so there was so many bottlenecks that these clients of mine, these small business owners had. And so I really just saw it as a massive opportunity to bring value in a different way. And honestly, I was just burned out from the agency life after doing it for a long period of time. And I just felt a more natural calling to saying, Hey, I can help business owners build these teams within their own businesses, solve these problems as they grow, focus more on just that and actually help them reach more success and not just, Hey, hire an agency and get some marketing, but then hit some other hurdles and have to stop because they aren't doing what they need to do in their business.

John (03:05): I guess this is the point where I should say that marketing is everything. That's how I view it. I've been doing this about 30 years and obviously marketing's evolved. There's new platforms, new technologies, how do you help? I will say that's probably the biggest complaint I hear from business owners is like, how do I keep up with all of it? How do you keep up with the changes in marketing, and then how do you bring those to your customers to help them stay ahead?

Scott (03:29): Yeah, I think it's really important to stay focused on the basics, right? There's fundamentals of marketing that will work regardless of the platform you're on, regardless of the medium that you have and everything like that. And so I think making sure that you're focused on the fundamentals first, doing the core marketing tasks and objectives that need to be done to create a good effective message, get it in front of the right people, and then give them an opportunity to convert. And then it comes down to just your personal style and brand. And if we're specifically talking about small business owners, you as a small business owner are pretty much going to be the driver of content in your business for good long time. So if you like recording videos, maybe you have a YouTube channel if you like writing copy, maybe you're on LinkedIn if you like making funny gif, maybe you're on Instagram.

(04:21): Obviously your audience is a big dictator of what platform and medium you use. But I think you should also be looking at your own personal skillsets and what kind of fits into your workflow. Look at how many businesses, small businesses specifically are on TikTok just recording what they're doing in their business. They're making stuff and they're just recording it and they're having a ton of success. An agency can't just sit here and record their process. So you have to look at those core things like what is your business? What kind of content does it lean towards? Where's your audience? What kind of medium and content do they want to absorb? And then what specifically fits to you and your style, your skillset, and how you communicate best.

John (05:04): So when I go out and speak, I'll give people the seven ways to do blah, blah, blah. And then inevitably somebody comes up and says, okay, that's great, but what's the one thing I need to do? Because everybody wants the simple magic pill. But have you found that there are, I don't know, a handful of tactics that when it comes to sales and marketing, pretty much every business needs to understand and do?

Scott (05:27): Yeah, every business needs to get as much exposure as they affordably can. They need to stay in front of that exposed audience as consistently as possible, and they need to craft a really good message. And look, we have the Alex from Moeys of the world who's absolutely brilliant in marketing and explaining terminologies and how these different concepts work. But if you have a business where you can create an irresistible offer, obviously that's going to make a massive difference. But even just having a message is effective and effective means connects with your audience, leaves them with a good impression of how their life is going to be different after they've interacted with your business. That is the core things you need to do. Exposure, stay in front of that exposure and then have a really good message that leaves an impact with people.

John (06:18): I mentioned in your bio that you help place and figure out systems for working with virtual assistants. My organization's been like a lot of companies I think has been virtual probably for 15 years. Many of my team's been distributed. I haven't tell you the last time I sat in a client's office, it's been at least 15 years ago. It's a pleasure, right? For the pandemic, certainly. Yeah, exactly. The pandemic certainly accelerated that for a lot of folks that hadn't even considered it, it's now the norm. Talk a little bit about how somebody might, and I know we're recording this, it's morning for you or it's morning for me, it's later in the day for you because you're in Thailand. Talk a little bit about how you see the world of virtual assistants connecting with small business and how we can go into some other one. Let's just talk about how you see that connecting right now.

Scott (07:09): Yeah. There's all kinds of small businesses out there. There's virtual businesses like ours, and then there's brick and mortar, there's local businesses. And look, I think at a fundamental general level across the board, utilizing remote workers, virtual assistants gives you a much larger talent pool to choose from. When you're looking to hire and source talent for the business, it gives you a much more affordable resource to find that talent. And look, I'll tell you, a big part of success for small businesses is if they can understand that there's multiple ways to grow your business, and there's definitely an avenue and a medium where you should have an agency come in and help your business grow. But there's also a way where you can hire your own core team to do some of your core functions and affordably scale to the point where you actually can utilize, really, truly utilize what an agency can do for you, but have this core team in place and have the consistency in your business and in your marketing to, I talk a lot about this in my videos.

(08:26): One of the biggest challenges that small business go through, especially when they're going from six to seven figures, is the cyclical effect, right? It's just the ups and downs of business, the high seasons and the low seasons. And what most business owners do is when their busy, they tend to spend money on marketing and they market, but then when things get slow, they tend to stop spending money on marketing and stop marketing. And really what you need to do is you need to just be consistent throughout. So that means don't overload the marketing when you're busy. And that means don't cut off the marketing when you're slower. Pick a strategy and a budget that will allow you to market consistently. And remote workers are a massive part of that because if you can lower your overhead as far as human resources, then that's just going to allow you to do so much more for so much longer.

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(10:17): That's work better now.com. And don't forget that DTM podcast code. Yeah. I talk to a lot of business owners that you're not the first person to talk about remote workers, right? That's been something people have been talking about for 10 years offshore, they used to call it, I don't think they call it that so much anymore, but the idea of there are actually places you can get remote workers for much less than say a US wage would be for various reasons. But what are some, I've also talked to a lot of people said, yeah, I tried that and I couldn't make it work. What are some of the mistakes or the hurdles that people have to overcome in order to effectively engage remote workers?

Scott (10:55): So a lot of mistakes just come from employee management in general. And so I think a lot of it's as small business owners, we're not trained on marketing, we're not trained on sales, we're not trained on business operations, and much less are we trained on employee and people management. And so I think you just have a lot of general mistakes from lack of systems and processes. So having a way to organize your projects, your tasks, your notes, all of those communications, lack of training, method, process, resources. And then I think honestly, a big part of it is just expectations. I think as people, we have a lot of expectations of, oh, I'm going to go hire this person. They say they can do this thing. I just trust that or expect that they can do what they say they're going to do, and then we give them tasks and they fail at it for one reason or another.

(11:46): And so then we go, oh, that didn't work. I'm never going to do that again. And so there's a lot of things that come into play and lot of reasons why these failed. But those are some of the big things that's really honestly just lack of understanding of how to manage people. And when it comes to remote workers specifically in VAs, these systems become so much more important and crucial because you're not with that person, can't just, there's a difference when you're working with someone through the computer versus if they're in your office, there's a comfortability there where they can come talk to you, they can see your facial expressions, your body expressions, all that. And honestly, we have video chat now. So a lot of that stuff is not a moot point in my opinion, but it's just different. And so even more so with remote workers, you have to really have these systems in place because ideally, you're not going to be sitting with them eight hours a day, right?

(12:43): You're a business owner, you have stuff to do. Having these systems in place to manage them effectively, giving them resources to be able to reach out, get support, SOPs, standard operating procedures, how long have employees been around? When businesses still don't use standard operating procedures, they don't even know what they are. A lot of these, again, it's just fundamentals, but we're not taught and trained small business owners on these things. And so we don't know. We don't implement them. And then we hear about, oh, you can go hire a cheap $3 an hour copywriter and just expect to be able to write copy and it can work. It does work. Just doesn't work the way the marketing people who are trying to, I don't know, sell your freelancer or something or saying it. So I don't know. I love the market. It's beautiful, but it's also still one of the last wild west of the world. Anything almost goes in marketing.

John (13:37): Yeah. Yeah, that's too, and a large part too, the fact that a lot of business owners don't really understand marketing. A lot of marketers don't really understand marketing, and you get a lot of this, oh, I just have to take what they say. Talk a little bit. Do you screen and place and train virtual assistants for your clients, or do you just show them how to do it?

Scott (13:58): Yeah, so I do both. I've got programs from where I can build out. I have an audit that I do that to the first interaction, one of the first interactions with me besides a one-on-one consultation, I do an audit where I'll come work with business owners and we go through a checklist and highlight all of their, Hey, these are where all your gaps missed opportunities are. Here's what you can do to fix it. And then, yeah, one of my services, again, besides one-on-one consulting or doing a preset program of, Hey, you need to hire sales person, let's take you through that process. Where are the SOPs, the job description, all that. But yeah, I actually am able to work with my clients on saying, Hey, I need a marketing team. I need a sales team. Great. I can actually come in. I can help you source, vet interview, and then train and get your own internal team set up for that.

John (14:49): Let's talk a little bit about technology and automation is great. I think a lot of people lean on it maybe too much. You see some of these AI chatbots now that are more frustrating than helpful. So how do you balance the fact that there is a lot of automation that can create some efficiencies, but then you lose the human touch, which is I think probably people are craving more than ever. How do you create that balance,

Scott (15:11): The rule of automate everything you can that isn't human interaction, and then when you have human interaction, make that human to human as much as possible? Obviously, we're going to automate things that are like emails or maybe text messages or marketing campaigns, but if you're going to have a chat system, if you have the volume, if it makes sense for your business, having a live person respond to that, it's not convenient, but it makes a difference. And I think something, especially in a country like the US or in a lot of other Western countries, I think what small business owners have lost sight of is the fact that as small business owners, the way we can compete with large corporations is by offering that really amazing personalized service. And that's really the only way. We can't compete on cost. We can't compete on fulfillment. We can't compete on refunds and warranties and exchanges and all of that.

(16:11): The big corporations are always going to beat us out on those things. Where small business owners can win is that human to human look. We have systems and processes, but we're not a large corporation where you have a unique situation. And look, we just have a system and a process. So that's it. You just have to, we are small business owners. We can make exceptions. We can really work with people and give that really specific touch. And that's been my model when it comes to what should you automate and what should you leave human to human? And I'll just say on a note of tech and ai, I think one of the most undervalued or underutilized pairings right now is using AI with remote workers. So a lot of people talking about remote workers, a lot of people talking about ai, but maybe where three years ago I had to pay a remote worker copywriter 10 to $15 an hour to get a decent English speaking or English writing copywriter.

(17:08): Now maybe I can hire a three to five. They're not as proficient, but they can use something like chat, GPT, Grammarly Hemingway, and they can actually produce really quality copy. And again, I'm lowering my overhead and using the software to, even if you have a really quality remote worker, and let's say you're paying them a little bit more than the average, you're going to enhance the quality of work they do, the speed of the work that they can do, and the creative output. And when it comes to tech, a big focus of mine too is saying, Hey, let's pair the AI and these enhancing tools, which I think is a really cool perspective to think about them with your team and just make your team more productive, more creative.

John (17:51): Awesome. Scott, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Where would you want people to connect with you or find out more about your work?

Scott (17:59): Yeah, you can find me on pretty much any of the social media channels, mainly Instagram, Facebook. I have my YouTube channel, nomad Talk N zero Mad Talk, and my website STO. You can go there and find out about my consulting and my programs for VA sales and marketing, and you can send me an email or shoot me a friend request on Facebook or Instagram and we can chat.

John (18:23): Awesome. Again, I appreciate you stopping by. Hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.



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Saturday, March 9, 2024

Weekend Favs March 9th

Weekend Favs March 9th written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but I encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one I took on the road.

  • MyMind – MyMind is your digital sanctuary for organizing thoughts and ideas. With intuitive mind mapping tools and collaboration features, MyMind helps you unleash creativity and boost productivity. Whether you’re brainstorming solo or collaborating with a team, MyMind provides a streamlined platform for visualizing concepts and bringing ideas to life.
  • Otter AI – Otter transforms the way you capture and organize conversations. With advanced AI transcription technology, Otter transcribes meetings, interviews, and lectures in real-time, making it easy to revisit important discussions and extract key insights.
  • Walling – Walling is your ultimate productivity companion for organizing tasks and ideas. With its intuitive interface and customizable features, Walling helps you stay focused and efficient.

These are my weekend favs; I would love to hear about some of yours – Tweet me @ducttape

If you want to check out more Weekend Favs you can find them here.



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Thursday, March 7, 2024

How to Achieve Remarkable Sales Results Every Time

How to Achieve Remarkable Sales Results Every Time written by Tosin Jerugba read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Ian Altman, renowned sales expert and author of “Same Side Selling.”

Ian grew his prior businesses from zero to over one billion dollars in value. He has since built a reputation for helping others build a culture of growth achieving remarkable results.

For 5 years in a row, he has been recognized as one of the world’s top 30 Experts on Sales, and his Same Side Selling Academy is repeatedly rated one of the top 5 Sales Development Programs globally. Ian hosts the popular Same Side Selling Podcast and you can read hundreds of his articles in Forbes and Inc. In this episode, Ian shares invaluable insights into the essential components of a winning sales process.

Key Takeaways

With an emphasis on consistency, alignment between sales and marketing, and the wise utilization of technology, Ian Altman underscores the importance of a well-defined sales process. By implementing a common process and language, businesses can navigate meetings effectively, overcome common obstacles, and shift the focus from price to value. Collaboration between sales and marketing teams ensure a cohesive approach that attracts and engages ideal clients, while leveraging technology enhances efficiency without sacrificing the personal touch. With these strategies in place, businesses can achieve remarkable sales results consistently, driving growth and success in today’s competitive market.

Questions I ask Ian Altman:

[01:27] What is the sales process?

[03:00] How important is a repeatable sales process?

[03:45] What are the core components of a repeatable sales process?

[05:37] As a Sales Guy, what do you think about Marketing?

[06:50] How important is the role of marketing in getting a prospect to pick up that first sales call?

[08:03] How do you effectively combine the culture of a sales process to the ultimate goal of closing a sale?

[09:59] How do you appropriately employ the use of technology in a sales process?

[15:13] How critical is ongoing training to better master the sales process?

[16:54] How do you make roleplaying effective?

[19:24] What are the common pitfalls beginners usually fall into when creating a sales process?

[21:37] Where can people learn more from you?

More About Ian Altman:

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by ActiveCampaign

Try ActiveCampaign free for 14 days with our special offer. Sign up for a 15% discount on annual plans until Mar 31,2024. Exclusive to new customers—upgrade and grow your business with ActiveCampaign today!

 

John (00:08): Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Ian Altman. Ian grew his prior business businesses from zero to over 1 billion in value. He has since built a reputation for helping others build a culture of growth, achieving remarkable results. For six years in a row now, he has been recognized as one of the world's top 30 experts on sales. And his same side selling academy is repeatedly rated one of the top sales development programs globally. He's also the author of a book named Same Side Selling Podcast, is called Same Side Selling. So Ian, welcome back to the show.

Ian (00:51): Thanks so much, John. It's almost like that duct tape marketing theme where everything's named the same. I don't know how we come up with these things. I just attribute it to a lack of creativity.

John (01:00): Well, I'd counter that by saying that the market responded well to same side selling, and probably you then said, well, why don't I call everything that it's kind of branding 1 0 1, right?

Ian (01:14): There could be some truth to that, but it could just be that I was too lazy. But I'd like to think it's better branding, but I'm just not a great branding and marketing guy like you. So for me, just I call it just blind luck.

John (01:25): Alright, so we're going to talk about sales process, not just closing or whatever, one aspect of it, but the entire process. So maybe let's start with defining what that is, what the parts of it are, because I think that's a term that a lot of people will mention, but what is it?

Ian (01:45): And it can be different for different types of organizations. So depending upon what people are selling, you can define it differently. But fundamentally what it comes down to is how do we earn the attention of our ideal clients? How do we differentiate and stand out from the competition? Then how do you navigate meetings to help people make a decision faster than they might otherwise? And how do you shift the focus from price to value and results? And it sounds simple and it can be simple. It's just not easy. And the reality is that I think where many organizations fall down, many individuals fall down is in every other aspect of their business. They have a defined process. Here are the steps that we follow. Here's the language we use, and in sales, we just make it up. And that's one of the biggest gaps. And so over time, we've discovered different steps that no matter what methodology you're using, doesn't have to be same side selling. If you follow these core components, you can be pretty darn successful.

John (02:45): So I know a lot of what you preach, you've kind of shadowed it a little, foreshadowed it a little bit. There is a repeatable process, but sort of the myth of the, oh, I'm just like a natural born salesperson. Probably butts with that a little bit, right? So how important is a repeatable process that says step one is this, then we ask for this, then we do this.

Ian (03:08): Well, so here's the thing. When you have different people on a team and some follow a process and some don't, what we find that the people who outperform others tend to be the ones who follow a consistent process. And if you're managing a team of multiple people and you don't have a consistent process, you don't have a consistent language and you get different results, then you're left guessing. Is it the individuals? Is it the process they're following? Is it their approach? But if I have the same process for everybody, that becomes less of a mystery

John (03:40): How important we've talked about, I mean, I think we've high level said the importance of a sales process, but are there specific components that go into creating such a process and refining and evolving? I mean, is there a follow-up component? I know I'm going to cheat a little bit because every business is a little different, but are there kind of core components?

Ian (04:01): Yes. In fact, there are, and there are three components, and we can walk through 'em one by one. But the three components that I have found, let's do and keep in mind in our same side selling academy, these were not necessarily things that we started with. And then we figured out, well, why are some people having success? Some aren't. And then we added stuff and all of a sudden it's like, oh, when we combine all these together, this works really well. It wasn't like, oh, I knew all these things were going to work, and we did that in version one. No, it was over time we realized, oh, here's what we've been messing up. Now that we've figured it out, I just want to share it with others. So the three components come down to the first is a common process, not only a common process and language, but how do we teach that common process and language internally and reinforce it?

(04:47): Then it's what we call a playbook for obstacles. So many businesses will have a small number, maybe a dozen of the most common obstacles they come up with, and their team kind of invents the answer each time it comes up, even though it comes up almost every single day, which is silly. And the last part that most organizations overlook is that they don't place enough emphasis on weekly role play or practicing coaching feedback and things like that. And those three components, if we can step through 'em piece by piece, are what I find are the difference between the top performers and those who are doing just Okay.

John (05:27): I do want to come back to that, but I'm going to throw another topic out. I'm a marketing guy, so I get the salespeople greatly. Those idiots can't close. Well, that's probably true. Now you are a sales guy. What do you think about marketing? That's

Ian (05:40): Probably true. So the reality is that, and you and I have talked about this and we've got many friends who the big gap for many organizations is this lack of alignment between sales and marketing. So oftentimes the sales organization looks as marketing as top of funnel creating, and then it's off to sales. And the reality is, throughout the sales process, there are questions that come up. There are issues that come up that marketing could provide content that will support the sales process. And too often there's this wall between the two. They don't talk to each other enough, and then you don't get that multiplier effect for the organizations where sales and marketing has joined at the hip, that's when you get the multiplier effect because you say, okay, the leads you've been generating, some of them are great. Some of them what we think we can refine the message to attract the ideal customers. Great. Which it's all marketing wants. Marketing doesn't want to create bad leads, they want to create great leads, but you have to work collaboratively to make that happen.

John (06:39): Yeah. Yeah. So I think increasingly today, and you correct me if I'm wrong on this, I mean a lot of trust has to be built before I even want a sales call. I mean, because there's lots of ways for me to avoid sales calls. And so how much of the role then, does marketing really play in establishing the trust high enough to where I even want to pick up the phone or have you set an appointment with you?

Ian (07:03): Well, a lot of it comes back to this notion of disarming. So it's the notion of if someone comes to your website and feels like you're just telling the person who landed there, look, we're the greatest thing in the world. You just don't know it yet. They're like, Hey, yeah, we've heard this before. Say from a marketing standpoint, here's who's a great fit not, and if you think you might be in this category, it's a great fit. Here's some questions we ask to make sure that we can deliver the results for you. And if you'd rather talk to one of our team members who can help figure that out, that's great. The client ultimately has to feel as though, and you can't fake this, that their outcome is more important than the sale. And once that happens, the guard comes down and people say, oh, you know what? These guys actually, they want to ask questions to make sure they can deliver what we're asking for. They're not just looking to pitch stuff at us. They want to see if we're a good fit. Okay, now I can have a conversation.

John (08:00): That's a brilliant point because I was going to ask you about the idea of culture. I mean, how much of what a prospect experiences from a brand, obviously some of it's the website, but how much of it then is the culture of the sales process as well? Because there are definitely brands that want to be very consultative, very educational, not pushy at all. I mean, so how do you marry that?

Ian (08:24): Well, I think nowadays, if you're not focused on the client's outcomes, you're missing the boat because it used to be 30 years ago, you could drop the ball and the person who you disappointed might tell their closest friends today, they'll tell a million people they've never even met before. So we need to make sure that the good news for the marketing people is that when there's a lack of alignment between sales and marketing and they get a different message from marketing, they do from sales, they assume one of them is lying. Usually they assume it's the salesperson. So the marketing people are safe. But ultimately, if you're trying to get a better outcome, the idea is if every message from beginning to end says, I'm more concerned with your outcome than I am the sale, then your customer can relax and say, okay, they're asking me questions about success that the other vendors never even brought up, so I'm better off working with them than somebody else.

(09:16): But part of it is how do you get people to ask those types of questions? And when you talk about the culture, the top performing organizations that we see through our academy and through the clients I work with comes down to businesses where if you talk to them, their culture says nothing is more important than the client's outcome. And if we don't think we can deliver it, we're not taking their business. And these are companies that went from 5 million to 50, from 17 to a hundred, from a hundred million to 700 million. I mean, we have example after example of businesses that have grown dramatically following these three core steps and focusing entirely on the client's result is more important than us making the sale.

John (09:57): I love it. Alright. Used to be sales technology was a mobile phone. Now of course, so we've got AI bots and we've got all kinds of automation and all kinds of follow up. What's the balance between using that for good and using it for not so good?

Ian (10:14): Well, generally I think what we do is we see some level of automation like ai, and then in most businesses, we figure out a way to mess it up and make it worse. And I'm a big fan of taking the IS s approach, which is we want to do things that are incrementally less stupid than they were last time. And so if you can take an incremental approach, and for example, we use AI tools for audio transcription and summaries for phone calls and video calls, and that way the system can draft a summary. Now if you just copy and paste it and don't review it, shame on you. But if you take something that used to take you 40 minutes to summarize, and now you can edit it down in five minutes and send it over, that's great. I think that the mistake that people make is rather than using this technology to assist, they try to use the technology to replace and then they're all of a sudden not human. As soon as the client figures that out, think about it. We've all used a chat bot that we're like, man, I can't tell if this is a chat bot or a human. And then it reaches a point where you can tell it's not a human. And now you go from being, this is cool, this sucks. And so you got to figure out where you intercept it and hand it off to a human.

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Ian (13:03): And it's that I remember overuse. It's that overuse. It's that overuse of automation that becomes a problem where people say, oh, well, okay, they said this, so I'm going to route 'em to this situation. I had a situation with a flight recently where the airline lost the luggage, and it wasn't that they lost the luggage, it was that I had better technology than they did. So I had an RFID tag, so I knew where my bag was. They didn't, and I'm talking to the gate agent and I said, look, my bag's over there, but I'm over here, which means my bag isn't making on this flight, and we have an hour and a half and you guys get on, we're fine. The AI bot at the airline says, oh, in a baggage issue, it's like, look, I don't care that baggage didn't get delivered. I care the people in the airport didn't do anything and had 90 minutes to fix it, but an AI bot goes, no, he mentioned baggage. So we route 'em to this box, and it's like, no, that's not what you want to do. Yeah,

John (13:56): But there are definitely places where, for example, if I want to schedule an appointment with somebody, just being able to click on a link and schedule it without interaction is a better experience. It removes the friction of me having to go back and forth. So definitely we're, I know you're not anti-technology.

Ian (14:13): Not at all.

John (14:13): It's just the poor use of it.

Ian (14:16): And keep in mind when John, even that example of the calendaring, if I just send you a link and say, Hey, pick this thing. Your perception may might be, this guy's lazy. If I send you a link and say, Hey, John, let me know what's convenient for you. In fact, if it makes life easier for you, here's a link that has my availability. You can pick from that, and if nothing shows up at a time that's convenient for you, just fire us a note and we'll find a time that works for both of us. Nine times out of 10, the client's going to just click on the link, and now they don't feel like it was lazy. It's like, Hey, I'm just trying to minimize back and forth for you. Oh, and me, but for you. So how do we do that? So part of it's how do we couch that in a way that doesn't sound like we're lazy,

John (14:59): Right? So I remember when I first started my career out of college and it was essentially a sales position, and so they sent me to a two day workshop how to be a better sales person, and then they never mentioned it again. So how critical is the ongoing training?

Ian (15:18): Ongoing is the key. It's like anything else in life. If you took a golf lesson, never practiced that swing and never got reinforcement, you might be worse rather than being better. And it's like in anything else, but in sales, people think that's okay. So it gets back to those three components, which is if I've got a consistent language and I reinforce it with my team, if I say, here are the most common dozen things that come up, how do we overcome those? And now they've got a formula for how to deal with those. And then every week we have a formula for how we coach people. That's when we get those high performing teams. And the funny part is that I've had clients reach out to other people like, wow, these guys, they grew from the prior three years. They've gone from 14 to 17 million after implementing this.

(16:00): They went from 17 to 109. How they do it, they reach out to the client and the client says, yeah, so we practice for an hour a week. And he goes, well, so in a year, how many times do you do it? And my client says, well, my calendar is 52 weeks, how about yours? It's like we do it every single week. It's not like, well, we say every week, but sometimes we don't all in. This is something that we just do and we create a way to make it fun. I remember I had the CEO of the same company. He says, yeah, I mean, we're growing like crazy, but people are doing the same sign and improv role play thing. And I don't know, it's like when I go over there, they're just all laughing and having a good time. I'm like, okay, so that's good. They're actually enjoying it and they're crushing your numbers, so they don't have to be miserable. They can be having a good time, which is why they're happy to do it every week.

John (16:50): So set that up a little bit. Give me a little explanation about, because everybody talks about role playing and we've all probably experienced really painful role playing. So how do you make that effective? And one of the things you said, consistency is probably one of the keys, but how do you make that effective when it is practiced, but it's not in a real live situation?

Ian (17:11): Well, so I'll break it down into first how we set it up, how you create variability, and then how you give feedback, because those are the three things you need to have. So first, in terms of the setup, we have three characters. We have a salesperson, we have a customer, and we have an observer. The observer is purely observing and taking notes because they're not in the moment. So they actually learn more than anyone else in each round of role play.

John (17:36): Their wheels aren't turning the whole time.

Ian (17:39): And so what we do is we say, okay, first you need to have an objective. So you need to say, here's the scenario, here's the background of this meeting, et cetera, because you can't just jump in the middle of it. And usually it's for the salesperson, okay, who's this customer? What's the background? Now what we do is we then create something we call in same side improv. We call 'em secret cards. We do it all digitally now, but the secret cards are a series of dozens of different scenarios. So it'll say, for example, for the customer, they pick one or more of these cards and it might say, you're afraid to lose control or headcount, or you've had a bad experience with a prior vendor, or you don't trust, or your existing vendor, or you are using this meeting to leverage your favorite preferred vendor, or there's executive pressure to solve it.

(18:23): Those sorts of things that often come up that people don't know about. And then the person playing the customer plays that role. And so we're trying to advance the meeting to achieve certain objectives. And that's all very well defined at the end. What I tell people is the first person to get feedback is the salesperson and the salesperson's supposed to say, what did you like? And what's the one thing you would've done differently? Then we ask the person, who's the customer, what are the things that stood out that were especially positive for you, and is there one thing that you would suggest that they do differently that they haven't already mentioned? And then we do the same thing for the observer. So what happens is everyone's giving positive reinforcement of, this was good, this was good, but here's the one biggest thing that you might want to do differently. And I'm giving the salesperson the opportunity to share something that, no, because if I can do now, it's like, okay, I can get to something that no one else has gotten to.

John (19:20): So one final question. We'll end on the downer. What are the big mistakes that you see people falling into the pitfalls that when they're trying to set this up and get something like this going when it hasn't existed before?

Ian (19:33): So either there's a few, I wish it was just one. One is that they say, oh, yeah, we should do this. But then they don't really enforce it. It's like in our academy we say, here's the process to follow. Well, we have a dashboard that shows the individual what they've done. It shows the leader what people have done. So if you set deadlines and people aren't actually following through, you need to hold people accountable. The second part is that when they're doing coaching, the biggest mistake is either the leader, which sometimes is the CEO, sometimes as a sales leader, often feels their job is to ride in on the white horse and save the day. And the reality is that their job is to coach and mentor their team. And then during the coaching session, they look at it as an opportunity to beat the other person over the head instead of say, Hey, you did these things really well.

(20:22): Here's the biggest thing that I would change this one thing, because you can't change 75 things at a time. But if every time they had a role play session, they got one thing better in the course of a month, they're going to be dramatically better. And what I love is that we take people who were never in sales before and six weeks into it, all of a sudden they're the top performer in the company. Everyone's like, what happened? It's like we gave 'em a simple process they can follow. We told them how to deal with the most common objections that come up, and then we're coaching them so they can develop those skills on a weekly basis. And surprise, wow, now they're doing great. And it's not that hard. It just requires that level of discipline.

John (21:03): Yeah. I like what you all said. The main thing too there is we probably tend to over complicate things, and by having a simple process to follow, we're going to do it.

Ian (21:12): Exactly. I think there are a lot of great systems that are so complicated, no one's ever going to follow 'em. And so what I present in same side selling and what I find attractive in just about every system that works is a level of simplicity that says, here are these really complex concepts. We're going to make it simple enough that people will actually do it. And that's what I think moves the needle. Yeah.

John (21:34): Awesome. Well, Ian, I appreciate you stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. You want to tell people and where they might find out more about what we talked about today, same side selling and your academy,

Ian (21:43): This is going to be a great shocker, but if they go to same side selling.com, they will find everything they want. And of course, you can find me on social media just at Ian Altman, I-A-N-A-L-T-M-A-N, but same side selling.com will get you to me also.

John (21:57): Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by. Hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road soon.



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