Friday, June 26, 2026

Your Marketing Doesn’t End When Someone Buys | 7 Steps to Small Business Marketing Success – Episode 6

Your Marketing Doesn’t End When Someone Buys | 7 Steps to Small Business Marketing Success – Episode 6 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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john jantsch (1)Overview

In step 6 of the 7 Steps to Small Business Marketing Success, John Jantsch makes the case for the part of marketing most founders quietly neglect: the customers they already have. The typical business pours close to 90 percent of its budget into winning new customers and only about 10 percent into keeping, reactivating, and growing the existing ones. Yet a returning customer who buys again and refers others is often worth three to ten times a one-time buyer. That gap is the opportunity this episode sets out to close.

John walks through what he calls the customer experience engine, built on four intentional components: onboarding, repeat engagement, a referral system, and reactivation. He explains why the back half of the Marketing Hourglass, the repeat and refer stages, holds the highest-ROI marketing available to most small businesses, with practical examples that range from seasonal maintenance plans that turn one-time projects into recurring revenue, to reactivation campaigns that bring dormant customers back quickly.

This episode is for small business owners, marketers, and consultants who want more growth from customer retention rather than constantly buying it. If your marketing runs smoothly right up until the sale and then goes quiet, this one gives you a framework for keeping the relationship, and the revenue, going.

Host Bio

John Jantsch is the founder of Duct Tape Marketing and the creator of the Marketing Hourglass and the Strategy First™ approach to small business strategy. He is the author of several books on marketing for small business, including Duct Tape Marketing and The Ultimate Marketing Engine, and he hosts the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, where he shares practical, real-world strategies for owners, marketers, and consultants. Through Duct Tape Marketing and its network of certified consultants, John helps small businesses install a complete Marketing Operating System.

Key Takeaways

  • Most founders spend around 90 percent of their budget acquiring new customers and only about 10 percent keeping and growing the ones they have. The math rarely favors that split.
  • A returning customer who buys again and refers others is often worth three to ten times a one-time buyer.
  • The highest-ROI marketing sits in the back half of the Marketing Hourglass, in the repeat and refer stages most businesses skip.
  • Treat onboarding as marketing. The first 90 days set the relationship, so build a structured sequence with a clear goal for each touch point.
  • Do not wait for customers to remember to come back. Use maintenance plans, seasonal triggers, anniversary touch points, and simple check-ins to drive repeat engagement.
  • Build a systematic referral approach that asks at moments of truth, when a customer is visibly happy with a result.
  • Reactivation is often the quickest win available. A single campaign to dormant past customers can bring a meaningful share back, sometimes 15 to 20 percent.
  • A strong customer experience produces reviews, case studies, and results-based stories that AI cannot fake, and those assets feed your new-customer marketing.
  • Start by auditing one number: the percentage of your budget going toward customers you already have.

Great Moments

  • [00:01] John introduces step six of the series and opens with the budget question every founder should ask.
  • [02:18] Why a returning, referring customer is worth three to ten times a one-time buyer, and why the back half of the Marketing Hourglass holds the most value.
  • [04:36] Onboarding as marketing: designing the first 90 days, plus repeat engagement through maintenance plans and seasonal triggers.
  • [07:02] Reactivation as the quickest win, and how a campaign to dormant customers can convert fast.
  • [08:21] The application effect: turning happy customers into reviews, case studies, and content that strengthens acquisition.
  • [10:43] John’s closing challenge, plus where to get the full ebook and a consultation.

Memorable Quotes

  • “A returning customer is probably worth three to ten times what a new one’s worth.”
  • “The back half of the hourglass has the highest ROI marketing available to most small businesses.”
  • “The marketing is orchestrated to a T until they say yes, and then it falls apart.”
  • “AI will reward you for clients that are willing to talk about your business.”
  • “What percentage of your marketing budget goes towards customers you already have?”

Resources

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John Jantsch (00:01.474)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and again, another solo show. I'm doing this seven-show series called The Seven Steps to Small Business Marketing Success. And you are listening today to step number six. So if you missed all the past episodes, go to ductemarketing.com and you can catch up if you are just now catching up. If you've been following along with me, I'm so thankful that you're here. So

Today I want to talk about the half of your marketing that you are ignoring. So here's a budget question. What percentage of your marketing budget goes towards getting new customers versus the ones you already have? Getting them back, turning them into referral sources? honestly, for most founders, it's probably 90-10 or worse, meaning they spend 90% getting that new customer and only about 10% on.

Activating, reactivating, retaining, turning that existing customer into a great source of advocacy. And frankly, a returning customer is probably worth three to ten times what a new one's worth. And so that math just doesn't really make any sense, but I get it. All right.

Why this customer engine, if we will, customer experience engine gets ignored. I think I think a lot for a lot of people for many, many years. It's why I developed a marketing hourglass because a lot of people think that marketing ends at the end of the funnel, right? At the sale. You know, everything after that is operations. But this is a really expensive assumption. I mean, the back half of the hourglass has the highest.

ROI marketing available to most small businesses. Just as a reminder, the seven stages of the marketing hourglass are no, like, trust, try buy. That's where most people stop. And then there's repeat and refer. That's where the real value is, that's actually where the momentum in any business growth really comes from. I mean, acquisition gets all the budget, the meetings, the attention, customer experience for a lot of organizations gets the leftovers. And yet,

John Jantsch (02:18.614)

The customer who buys comes back and refers again is worth three to ten times quite often that person that just buys one time because you offered them a deal or something. So, I mean, I think the ratio shows up in the data to to really prove this easily. So, how do we actually address it? There are four components to this idea. and it starts really with experience. So I call this the customer engine, but it's not about.

Customer acquisition. It's about customer retention. So we might call this the customer experience engine for this step. So onboarding, repeat engagement, referral system, and reactivation. These are core components that need to be intentional parts of your marketing, of how you build your business, quite frankly. And most of the attention in marketing goes to the that.

How do we get a new client? How do we get eyeballs? How do we run ads? So the four components, onboarding. The first 90 days, frankly, is where a relationship gets established. If you're one of those businesses that can retain, I mean, we're we're in a monthly retainer type of business. So every single month we're having to earn that experience, but we keep clients for years. And I think a lot of it has to do with a very professional onboarding experience.

A structured sequence that they can understand that you communicate to them, that you tell them this is how it's going to be. and and really, this is a part so many people skip. It it is the marketing is orchestrated to a T until they say yes, and then it falls apart. So walk through what a real onboarding sequence looks like for your business. Like all the touch points, the timing. each step should have.

i a goal of what it's trying to accomplish. Even and and you can obviously take this and and make a crazy onboarding experience, but even if you just actually set step back and said, how do we, or do we do it consistently? Or are there some tools we should develop around making sure that we communicate expectations? I mean, just having a 30-minute conversation with whoever frankly does the sales, but then also who does

John Jantsch (04:36.016)

the customer onboarding or or customer service, whatever you want to call it, just having a conversation with your team or thinking about creating an experience that that you would like to go through. And in fact, that's always a great place to find ideas on that. You know, if you're a customer of somebody, what's their onboarding look like? Did did did you like it? Did you not like it? Were there parts of it that you were like, yeah, we should do that, or parts of that you were like, we're doing that and we shouldn't. You know, those are things that you need to think of.

Repeat engagement. I this is one where, and I get it, we're all busy, but this is one where we just we just kind of rely on the customer remember to return, right? and and you you've really got to develop, you know, maintenance plans, seasonal triggers, anniversary touch points, check-ins anchored to you know, natural moments in a customer situation. Even even if it's really just checking in to say, hey, I just want to make sure happy with everything, right? So the the landscape business, right?

Introduced seasonal maintenance plans, converted about 40% of the projects to customers. we we helped show them that you know they could create meaningful recurring revenue by just making sure that they were hitting those clients at a time when they probably needed something and the timing was right, and then you just made it easy. That's one of the real keys. part number three, I've already talked about this, but the the referral system, actually having

a you know, a very systematic approach to going back and asking, going back at you know, at moments of truth, identifying when a client's going to be happy. you know, when you do that new installation and all of a sudden they're like, Man, this looks incredible. that's a point to say, you know, do you know others that would need this? Here's what you could do to actually introduce us to them. Here's how to do it. those are all parts of it. And then just reactivation. Sometimes a customer

doesn't have a need. You know, you think about the typical real estate you know, agent, the you know, the the client buys a house and it's not like they're gonna come back next month and buy a house, right? But they probably will in three to five years. so what are you doing to actually reactivate that past customer that you you know that if you just stay top of mind, they may actually have a need at some point. It's probably the the highest

John Jantsch (07:02.674)

ROI that that you can re that you can achieve and it's also one of the quickest wins. You know, sometimes we come into businesses and you know they have 1200 past clients. And some of them are existing clients, but you know, a large percentage of them haven't really done anything for a while. Don't really know why. Wasn't anything wrong. They just kind of drifted away. Maybe they're somebody else is serving them. Maybe they just decided,

I can get along without that product or without that service. Who knows? Right. and it's amazing what just having a a campaign, even that you say, look, these 800 people, let's make them an offer to come back. Let's remind them of something new that we have. And it's incredible. Like in some cases, you know, 15 to 20 percent of them will immediately purchase. And all of a sudden that that was like one easy thing that would have that would have been next to

impossible to achieve to activate that many new clients. So sometimes just actually going back and saying, look, we haven't touched these people in a long time. Let's create a campaign can be really one of the the quickest wins that you can have in your marketing. So the last piece is

John Jantsch (08:21.056)

What I would call the application effect on this. and what I mean by that is if you have a great customer experience, you're going to get reviews. You're going to be able to build case studies from those happy clients. You're going to be able to do things that that really allows you to produce content that is real content that AI can't produce because it's about the results. It's about the

the problems that you've solved. It's about the ROI that you've gotten for clients. And if you can actually then start to take and routinely use that content in your new customer acquisition, all of a sudden it becomes even more, hopefully it becomes even more obvious why you should have that approach for a customer experience that is going to make these clients

Really happy to talk about your business. AI will reward you for clients that are willing to talk about your business. So it becomes this cycle that really helps to build momentum in your business. So you create the incredible onboarding experience, you create the reactivation and the referrals, but you also create these moments, intentional moments, as part of your system where you are going to acquire.

content, you're going to acquire assets from your happy customers that you can then use in all of your marketing. So that's really as much as anything, that's one of the reasons to focus on this. I've the reasons to focus on this are obvious from a business growth standpoint. But then it amplifies itself when you're able to take these happy customer stories and then use them in your marketing. So what percentage of your marketing budget goes towards customers you already have?

That is the real uncomfortable question that is going to get you the two to the point where you will start to understand how important this idea is. So thanks for tuning in again. You can get the entire ebook at that this is based on at DTM.world slash seven steps. Or if you're ready to talk to one of our advisors, duct tapemarketing.com slash consultation. So thanks for tuning in. Love to hear from you.

John Jantsch (10:43.596)

Love to hear your feedback on this series. It's just John at Duct Tape Marketing if you want to do that. share this with friends, neighbors, colleagues, other business owners as well. If you think that they can use this type of information for their business, and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days soon out there on the road.

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Why Video Marketing Builds Customer Trust in the Age of AI

Why Video Marketing Builds Customer Trust in the Age of AI written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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Overview

Automation is everywhere in small business right now, from chatbots to email sequences to review requests. The question Doug Dibert Jr. raises on this episode is a pointed one: as you add more AI to your customer communication, are you accidentally making people trust you less? Dibert, founder and CEO of the white label video platform Magnfi, makes the case that video is the human layer that keeps automated systems from feeling cold, and that businesses adding short, personal video to their everyday communication are standing out and closing deals faster.

John Jantsch and Dibert get practical fast. They cover where video belongs after the sale, how to turn a four or five star review into a video testimonial that doubles as marketing content, and why a simple recorded reply on a form-confirmation page still surprises people. Dibert shares his Thank You Thursday habit, breaks down how AI video production now rivals shoots that once cost a fortune, and explains how agencies are packaging video as recurring revenue.

This one is for small business owners, marketers, and agency operators who already use automation and want it to feel more human without adding hours to the week. If you have wondered where video actually fits in a tech stack built on AI, you will leave with a short list of places to start.

Guest Bio

Doug Dibert Jr. is the founder and CEO of Magnfi, a white label video platform that helps marketing agencies and businesses add video to AI chat, email automation, and reputation marketing systems. With a background in filmmaking and years running a video production and marketing agency, He built Magnfi to give businesses video testimonial capture, branded video clips, video email, and AI-delivered video replies without the editing overhead. He works closely with agencies that resell the platform to their own clients.

Key Takeaways

  • Video is becoming the human layer over AI-driven communication. A short clip in a welcome email, a chatbot reply, or an SMS keeps a real person present as you automate.
  • Video chatbot replies work best as pre-recorded clips delivered by AI from a knowledge base at the right moment, not glitchy on-screen avatars.
  • Reviews can become a content engine. After a four or five star review or a high NPS score, invite a quick video testimonial and offer a small thank-you, turning happy customers into micro-influencers.
  • A personal video on your form-confirmation page still stands out, because so few businesses bother to confirm a submission like a human would.
  • Thank You Thursday: pick a random customer each week and record a short thank-you. It often reopens conversations and surfaces new needs.
  • Your current customers are your best audience for additional products. Social media nurtures buyers, it does not only attract new ones.
  • LinkedIn is a strong place for video right now if you want to be seen as an expert in your field.
  • AI video production has matured fast. Doug’s team produced a cinematic ad for an automotive repair shop that drew over 7,000 plays in two weeks.
  • For agencies, white label video slots in as an add-on to reputation, social, and web services, commonly at $250 to $750 a month in recurring revenue.

Great Moments

  • [00:02] John opens with the question behind the episode: is your new AI quietly eroding customer trust?
  • [00:51] The story behind the name Magnfi, including why dropping a single letter saved $5,000.
  • [02:06] How video shifted from “just content” to humanizing AI-driven communication.
  • [03:18] Why video outperforms text: nonverbal cues build know, like, and trust.
  • [05:54] Where video belongs after the sale, from welcome emails to chatbots to onboarding.
  • [08:31] Turning four and five star reviews into video testimonials with a simple incentive.
  • [11:47] Thank You Thursday, and how a weekly thank-you video reopens client conversations.
  • [16:22] The cinematic AI video example: a Mad Max style ad built around an air freshener.
  • [20:08] The first 90 days for a white label agency, plus why YouTube is the number two search engine.

Memorable Quotes

“What if every AI tool your business just adopted is quietly making customers trust you less?” — John Jantsch

“Video is a fantastic conduit for know, like, and trust in a digital-first world.” — Doug Dibert Jr.

“Your social media is also for continuing to sell to your current customers.” — Doug Dibert Jr.

“Your current customer base is the best base to sell additional products and services to, because they already know, like, and trust you.” — Doug Dibert Jr.

“That person took the time to record a video. You have no excuse.” — Doug Dibert Jr.

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John Jantsch (00:02.118)

So, what if every AI tool your business just adopted is quietly making customers trust you less? Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jance, and my guest today is Doug Dibert Jr. He's the founder and CEO of Magnif Mag. I I bet you a lot of people struggle with that. Magnify. Well, he'll he'll straighten me out.

A white label video platform that helps marketing agencies and businesses add video to AI chat, email automation, and reputation marketing systems. So Doug, welcome to the show.

Doug (00:36.632)

Thanks so much. Yeah. No, no. It's we're we're we're we're we're marketers and salespeople. We're not, you know, English majors, right? So

John Jantsch (00:43.91)

All right. So so tell everybody everybody listening how to actually pronounce it.

Doug (00:51.148)

Magnify, yep, yep, you got it. Yep, magnify, M-A-G-N-F-I, yeah. Well, it w I I I originally started it. I was gonna buy M-A-G-N-I-F-I, but somebody else owned it and they wanted five grand for the letter I. And when you're a startup, right, I mean every dollar counts. So I was like, well, just take off the I, no big deal.

John Jantsch (00:53.484)

it says magnify, okay. Okay, all right. I was

John Jantsch (01:02.95)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I tell you the other issue I ran into. I I so wanted to pronounce your name like the cartoon. I was trying to put an L L in there, you know. I I so wanted to do that as Dilbert, but that's okay, gosh. I should I should we start my intro over again? I just butchered everything. All right, so yeah, there you go. All right, well now.

Doug (01:17.704)

Yeah, I get that too.

Doug (01:22.882)

Yeah, yeah, I I get that too. It's it's actually diapers, but long eye.

It's it's perfect and it's imperfection. There we go.

John Jantsch (01:39.364)

Now we have a reason to talk about it. So that's a you know, that's a marketing win. so you started as a video production company agency, and my guess is that most of your clients saw what you were doing or you sold what you were doing as content production. I I think that's probably a true statement, right? how does Magnify actually look at video content differently?

Doug (01:40.97)

Yeah, there you go.

Doug (01:47.575)

I did, yeah.

Doug (01:56.63)

You got it. Yeah.

Right true.

Doug (02:06.734)

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So how we look at content differently, I mean, this is it's a little bit of a metamorphosis, right? And a a lot of the metamorphosis for us really has been driven by the advancement of AI in a lot of communication. So video for a long time has been seen as just content. You know, social media, you gotta make video content, you gotta make those expert tip videos, you gotta do this, you gotta do that, which is all true.

John Jantsch (02:13.317)

Right.

John Jantsch (02:23.226)

Yeah, yeah.

Doug (02:34.306)

But now it's it's even more important because it's a part of humanizing business communication and AI driven communication now. That's it's it's like the pivot has just happened not even that long ago. It's it's it's definitely very interesting pivot, even for us.

John Jantsch (02:52.634)

Yeah. Well well, and I think the biggest change is what you're suggesting, and certainly what I've seen, is that there's a lot of places, there's a lot of gaps in where people are using it, video. Certainly, I mean, I I guess we could start with talking about, you know, how video differs from from word, written word content and maybe go there, you know, like why is video so powerful as a medium period?

Doug (03:11.405)

Mm-hmm.

Doug (03:18.008)

You got it. Well, it's it's it's definitely more powerful than just text on a screen because you see let's like right right now, we're doing a video podcast, right? You're hearing my voice, you're hear you're hearing my tonality, you're you're seeing my hands move. I'm a big hand talker. So you're seeing my eyes get big with excitement, right? And then obviously you're laughing. So just it we read so much nonverbal communication than we do.

John Jantsch (03:38.565)

Yeah.

Doug (03:46.242)

Verbal and we actually in science shows we learn more. So the businesses that are are adding video now to a simple email communication are are standing out in a huge way and closing deals faster. We worked with some sales teams that were super reluctant, like, I don't want to take the time to record a video. I'm busy. I just want to fire off a quick, you know, email and then send it off. You know, keep the that sales prospecting thing going. But the businesses that actually levered it early on.

John Jantsch (03:47.205)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (04:08.677)

Yeah.

Doug (04:16.574)

actually close the deals faster because video is a fantastic conduit for no like and trust in a in a digital first world.

John Jantsch (04:23.898)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think I think all communication is a form of persuasion. you know, we're trying to persuade somebody to do something, you know, even if it's just right back to me. and so I I think video scores very high on trust, and trust is certainly one of the biggest elements of persuasion, as you as you just mentioned. W I I read in the beginning of this some stats that that actually I think you you have shared. Seventy nine percent of Americans prefer human

Doug (04:30.754)

Yeah. Yeah.

Doug (04:45.75)

You got it.

John Jantsch (04:53.868)

Over AI agent and customer service, 86 say human interaction still matters to brain experience. I'm wondering if those numbers are skewed because so many people are doing it poorly. you know, so some of the automation, the really particularly the early automation was was more frustrating than helpful in a lot of cases. And they just found themselves like human, human, human, you know, pushing whatever button to get to that. And and do you think that that some of those numbers are there because

Doug (05:03.672)

Mm-hmm.

Doug (05:11.061)

Yeah, yeah.

Doug (05:15.98)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (05:21.594)

People are doing it poorly. I know that I've had good experiences with AI chat and I I'm like, Great, that was the way I wanted to go because it I got the result. That's really all we're after, right? Yeah.

Doug (05:32.322)

Yeah, you got it. Yep, right to the end result. Yep.

John Jantsch (05:36.048)

So so how does I guess the second part of that, an actual question, you know, how you know, how is somebody using video in all these like customer experience and onboarding and you know, all the things that they think about that they don't think about in a lot of cases after the sale?

Doug (05:54.03)

Correct. Yeah. Well, so after the sale, super important. So especially after the sale, letting them know that a real human being is actually behind the business is vitally important. So when they get that first welcome email, adding a simple video to it, even if this is generic, even in the chat bot, right? We're seeing a a nice uptick in people adding video replies just to a chat bot. Because even after the sale, even for Magnify, when somebody comes in and white labels a platform,

John Jantsch (06:06.01)

Right, right.

John Jantsch (06:20.602)

Mm-hmm.

Doug (06:23.0)

They'll come and they'll still hit our chat bot up and just ask questions. So we just we deliver video answers to that. So adding video to that. So and then even social media. People businesses don't think after somebody is sold, like their social media is just for attracting customers. Your social media is also for continuing to sell to your current customers, because if they bought from you, they're probably liking your social media.

John Jantsch (06:26.693)

Yeah.

Doug (06:48.278)

So continuing to educate and nurture and onboard that customer into how to maximize out your product or your service that you have.

John Jantsch (06:57.914)

So so so give me a little give me a little bit on the technical details. When you say video in your chat replies, that's really a a a bot that is replying in video form. I mean that's not actually pre-recorded videos. A lot of people used to do that. but but you're actually saying no, it's gonna respond to the exact question it was asked based on a knowledge base.

Doug (06:58.186)

Even after the sale.

Doug (07:09.73)

You got it.

Doug (07:19.138)

Yeah, based on the knowledge base and delivering of a pre-recorded video. You got it. So that way I've seen the the bots out there that have like the automated like AI avatar and it looks really weird like the headljerk and then I'll give you that text response answer. But these are pre-recorded video responses that are delivered by the AI at the right place at the right time.

John Jantsch (07:33.422)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Jantsch (07:40.643)

Okay.

Doug (07:44.46)

So business can still we tell me this all the time, automate as much as you can, but when it's appropriate, add in that video that that human layered response versus just a a talking bot. So what the bot is figuring out where the appropriate response is to add that video video reply.

John Jantsch (08:04.57)

So one of the things I think we talked about was at reputation management. you know, there are a lot of industries that have been on the, you know, getting reviews game for many, many years, home service industries, restaurants, spas, you know, that kind of thing. But it's I think almost every business has now realized how important it is. how can you use kind of one what I call one-to-one video in referral generation, or not necessary referral, reviews like a Google review.

Doug (08:14.626)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Doug (08:31.586)

Yeah, review capture. Yeah. So a lot of softwares out there I know for reputation management. After somebody leaves a four or a five star or an NPS score leaves like a nine or a ten, now you could with with our platform, that's how we work beautifully with those platforms. Is that if they do click those, you can automate either a gay, you know, click here and tell us your story, record a quick video testimonial about your experience. And hey, as a thank you for your time, you know, for for telling us your story, we'll

Well send you 10% off the next visit, right? So that's a perfect opportunity to create micro influencers out of those people who are leaving those those five stars or four stars and those nine and tens on the on an MPS score. So then it becomes a content generation engine.

John Jantsch (09:17.348)

Yeah. So so so again, just to clarify that, you're not necessarily saying use it you know, a lot of people do things where they did a service and they want to send a video out to the person saying, Hey, review us. But you're actually you're actually advocating more for once somebody does review you to actually then ha use it as an engagement tool.

Doug (09:36.738)

Yeah, it's actually both. Yeah, yeah. So it yep, you you could utilize it both ways. Like we we have users on our platform that'll use our video email tool. So it'll actually route them to a video message of the owner saying, Hey, like I'm Bob the from from Bob's Burgers, right? Hey, I'm so glad you had a great time at at our place. If you feel so inclined and you want to tell us your story about how much you loved your burger, what was your favorite burger? Just click the link below and record your story for us. And next time you come in, you know, burgers on me, just for taking the time.

John Jantsch (09:38.479)

Yeah, okay.

John Jantsch (10:06.566)

Yeah, yeah.

Doug (10:06.732)

So we've seen it both ways. You got it.

John Jantsch (10:10.244)

many years I have actually advocated small business owners, you know how you you fill out a form, whether it's request a quote or just contact us or whatever the form is, and and it always drove me crazy. You'd press that button, send, and you weren't even I mean there was no confirmation, there was nothing. You're like, I don't know, did they get it? You know, or not, right? And I'd always was big on getting business owners to record a video, send them to a page that basically says, Hey, we got it, you know

Doug (10:11.51)

Yeah, okay. Yeah, small.

Doug (10:16.814)

Mm-hmm.

Doug (10:27.554)

Yeah, yeah.

John Jantsch (10:36.674)

Our best agent is on it, they're gonna get back to you. Me and and the people that did that, it was funny how often we'd get comments because it it was it's it's now pretty regular, but it was unique almost so that you know, people would comment on something so goofy and so simple.

Doug (10:39.436)

Yeah.

Doug (10:51.406)

Well what's what's what's funny is you were ahead of the game, John. And because what you were what what you were doing is you were humanizing the experience. Instead of shooting a simple e or even a even an email, just like you said, sometimes you get nothing back, but usually you get that automated little text like, We've got your thing, let's let me be in touch with you, blah, blah, blah. But now, looks like you said, recording, I mean, taking three minutes or less to record a video, throw that in your auto response, and then

John Jantsch (10:56.921)

Yes.

John Jantsch (11:07.045)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Doug (11:20.162)

Having that video pop up? You were ahead of the game, man.

John Jantsch (11:23.79)

Yeah, well and and the fact that everybody the pandemic actually sped this up because everybody that everybody had to go out and get a camera and everybody got on video and everybody was used to now they had all these tools to actually do that recorded before. I mean when I started doing it, we had to bring a crew into the office. It was much harder. So

Doug (11:27.566)

yeah. Yeah. Video.

Doug (11:38.83)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I remember even even before the like just trying to get something out of Zoom call before all that was was super hard to do. Now it's like we gotta walk across the street. well to Zoom.

John Jantsch (11:47.47)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. So I think I read somewhere you do something called Thank You Thursday. you pick a random client e each week and send a personal video email. it's so funny. Again, going back to old practices because I've been doing this a long time. I had a habit of of every Friday I would call three or four clients, literally with like, hey, I was just let's see how you doing. And I can't tell you how often somebody said, you know, I was just about

Doug (12:00.706)

Yeah.

Doug (12:14.926)

There you go.

Yeah.

John Jantsch (12:21.414)

call you, we need to do XYZ. I mean, it was unbelievable. So I made it a habit. So tell me about your thank you Thursday.

Doug (12:22.19)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, thank you Thursday came well from you know from video email, right? 'Cause like we talk about you should use video email, should do that. It's kinda like practicing what you preach. So every Thursday, well, 'cause it rhymes, it kinda helps you remember it. yeah, thank you Thursday. You just pick a random customer and record a video and just say, Hey, how's the su how it's going on? Hope you're doing fantastic and hope you're enjoying the platform. You know, hope the family's doing good. Just want to record a video to say, Hey, thank you. I appreciate you because I would not be here if you if we if we weren't working together. So I just want to say thank you.

John Jantsch (12:38.469)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug (12:56.474)

And less than twenty-four hours, if not maybe five to ten minutes later, you would get a response back saying, That was really cool. Thank you so much. And and a little what you just said, John, will happen. They'll be yeah, well I thinking about adding X this Y XYZ thing on it. I'm glad you reached out. Let's get this thing going. So it's I mean, your your your current customer base is is the best base to re to sell additional products and services to because they already know, like, and trust you.

John Jantsch (13:21.412)

Yeah. Have you have you have you quantified or or or gotten even any kind of feedback from clients who've maybe adopted that practice to say this is what this has meant over the last six months?

Doug (13:34.466)

Yeah, mean l l literally what I just still what when I kind of explained that concept to our to our agencies and stuff like that that white label us even businesses, literally the same response is like, my gosh, this is so easy, so simple, especially from C suite people, like messaging out their their team members. Hey, I want to record your quick video or record a quick video and just say, Hey, you know, hey, you know, Bill. Just want to record your quick video, just let you know I think you're doing a fantastic job. Thank you so much for working here.

John Jantsch (13:38.766)

Yeah. Yeah.

John Jantsch (13:48.601)

Yeah.

Doug (14:01.56)

Especially if they're talent they want to keep. People just wanna feel appreciated. So that C suite executive that was using our platform did that. He's like, my gosh, like this is I'm gonna do this all the time now. Just record video, just say thank you to my team members who are doing a fantastic job.

John Jantsch (14:04.976)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (14:16.928)

th a lot of people have been, and any number of people have been using tools like Loom to do kind of similar one to one video and you know, you you just click a button and record. I I I know, you know, we initially our initial use case for using Loom was when we were trying to explain, say to a web designer, like, fix this thing right here, you know, and it was just a lot easier, right, to communicate that. How does your platform differ from a you know, a tool like that which can be free?

Doug (14:23.256)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Doug (14:35.372)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Doug (14:45.58)

Yeah, yeah, no, Loom's a fantastic platform. Yeah. So we we have the we just like you said, we have the we have the same kind of capabilities inside of Magnify, right? But the cool part about what what Magnify is is we've built in not just a a screen recording tool, but we have the ability to capture video testimonials, produce simple branded video clips, make little story videos which takes three video clips and produces them into one video, and then literally add video to any marketing communication that you have, whether you have an AI chat bot.

John Jantsch (14:51.718)

Ha ha ha.

Doug (15:14.942)

you have SMS marketing, add videos to that. So we're kind like the the all-encompassing video powerhouse. And that stemmed when I was running my video marketing agency. It stemmed from what other digital marketers and what businesses were actually asking for on a consistent basis. So when you're running a video production company, you'd get those nice big client contracts, right? Where you're making 10,000-ish dollars a video. But

Magnify was birthed out of, well crap. Like I gotta make more I gotta I gotta figure out a recurring revenue model instead of always always hunting and killing that next thing. So that's where it was kind of birthed from was the the tools, the five tools we have were birthed from what businesses use or and should be using on a regular basis. And then what makes us unique with the video communication tools is the video content creation tools. We produce it for you. So there's no video editing needed.

John Jantsch (15:49.966)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Jantsch (16:01.456)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (16:09.658)

Yeah, yeah.

Doug (16:09.74)

So art it adds your your logo and music and captions and call to action all by itself.

John Jantsch (16:15.856)

Well in and that ten thousand dollar video, you know, AI is cutting into that budget pretty pretty significantly too, I think.

Doug (16:22.582)

yeah, it's funny you mentioned that. Well, it's 'cause we we actually just through probably about a good year and a half, like obviously we're we're on we'd like to think we're on the cutting edge of of video. And AI video being one of those. We we've seen it go from like the really terrible to where it's at now and we've we have studied it and just started offering like cinematic style AI videos where it looks

Where it could replace a five million dollar budget video. We just did one for a multi location automotive repair shop. And they wanted like, they came to us, they wanted like a Mad Max style thing video built around a air freshener. Their big thing was like this cool air freshener that you that you hang on their their their the the mirror gives them 15% fifteen dollars off their next oil change.

John Jantsch (16:51.534)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm.

John Jantsch (17:10.67)

Mm.

Doug (17:19.81)

Gets it back of the door. they wanted a story built all around that. So we went, we we were like, okay, yeah, we'll give you like a one that's like around a minute and a half. But like once we got into it, we're like, we made us like a two minute 30 30 second, like full movie trailer. I mean, complete with scenes. I mean, if you were to pay a crew your minimal five million dollars, and it turned out amazing, they dropped it on their social media.

And within two weeks got over seven thousand plays. And immediately we're like, we want to do more. So we're actually doing one that's a a gone in sixty seconds theme mixed with back to the future. So that's sort of getting ready to drop here pro pretty quick.

John Jantsch (17:50.256)

Yes.

John Jantsch (17:56.088)

yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's interesting. I mean you imagine you imagine like, you know, two actual live trucks or something driving down the road, you know, in a Mad Max style. I mean, I would take f twenty people back in the day, right? All the people holding boom mics and and the three, four different videos on, you know, on trucks. I mean, crazy. So,

Doug (18:02.102)

It's awesome.

Doug (18:12.366)

Yeah. It's like my God.

Doug (18:21.85)

somebody who studied filmmaking in college, if I had this at my fingertips back in the day, like I mean, literally, like your the your imagination is only the limit. It's so it's crazy.

John Jantsch (18:24.411)

Yeah.

Yeah.

John Jantsch (18:32.696)

Yeah, yeah. All right, so I'm a two person shop and I don't have time for video. What's the least amount I could get away with?

Doug (18:42.712)

The least am I gonna get away with, right? That well, that's what the Magnify platform was built for, number one. But number, but number two, bust out that phone in your pocket and just record some content for the love. Because I I always love when people you're on screen, it's been this is a great analogy I tell all people who are considering it. You ever been scrolling on social media and you stop and you see some guy's video, you're like, that guy's an idiot. Like, I know more than that person.

John Jantsch (18:43.78)

Ha ha ha.

John Jantsch (19:08.602)

Yeah. Yeah.

Doug (19:10.968)

Well, that person took the time to record a video. Well, you have no excuse. Start recording that content. Put it on social media, especially if you're on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is so hot right now for video content. If they if you're a LinkedIn person and you're watching this, make video content on LinkedIn to position yourself as a thought leader as an expert. There's never been a better time to do it on LinkedIn, for sure. Hands down.

John Jantsch (19:14.277)

Yes.

John Jantsch (19:21.296)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

John Jantsch (19:34.596)

Although my soap speech, stop recording the videos in your car with you driving. I hate those, okay?

Doug (19:40.544)

Yeah. Listen, I've been guilty of those. 'Cause like sometimes you'll get that thought that pops in your head and like I wanna get it out before I forget. But I hear you. I hear you.

John Jantsch (19:52.778)

So so so so you're positioning your program though or your platform as white label for agencies. so tell me a little bit about I don't know the first ninety days of implementation for an agency, what's that look like?

Doug (20:01.954)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug (20:08.3)

Yeah, so first that's the most important, right? The first ninety days. So the first ninety days when agency signs up, they they typically have a customer that they're already like have asked for either video testimonials or they want to add video to an email marketing plan. And so that's when they typically will find us, right? So but we tell agents all the time, yes, it's exciting that you have a customer, right? And how our platform works is they pay that the the flat rate and then they get thirty they get thirty seats, thirty seats to give out to as many customers as you got it.

John Jantsch (20:23.675)

Yeah.

John Jantsch (20:33.284)

Hm. Wow. so those could each be a client could have a seat. I'll get you, okay.

Doug (20:38.38)

Yeah, so you can give video testimonial capture, video email, branded video clips for your customer and add a layered in video service that works with your existing stack, your reputation marketing, your social media plan, your website design. But we tell them first 90 days, if you make sure you get yourself an optimized YouTube channel for your own agency. And because you agencies

John Jantsch (20:50.638)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (20:59.61)

Yeah.

Doug (21:04.477)

love the idea of having an optimized YouTube channel for their business because one, it helps out tremendously with SEO, right? I mean, and John, you'd be surprised how many agencies don't know that YouTube is the number two search engine in the world. And when we tell them that they're like, what? Really? Yes, it is. So yeah, it's a great way to sell your client into creating content. So the first thing is getting them to create content. Get a video testimonial from one of their happy customers.

John Jantsch (21:10.99)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

John Jantsch (21:16.902)

Sure. Yeah. Has been for a long time. Yeah.

Doug (21:32.472)

But it's implementing it in with their own tech stack, right? So when they approach a business and they go, Hey, check out what we're doing here. This will work better. This will make work amazing for your business. The business goes, Well, heck yeah, that's awesome. I want that too. And it's an easy add on. And most agencies are charging between two hundred and fifty bucks to seven hundred fifty seven hundred and fifty dollars a month in recurring revenue. Right out the gate. Yeah. Yep. You got it. Yeah.

John Jantsch (21:53.772)

Right. Per se per seat. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you stopping by, taking a few moments on the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there some where you'd invite people to learn more about w how they can try out Magnify?

Doug (22:11.02)

Yeah, we well obviously you can just go to magnify dot com, A G N F I dot com. And then always hit me and hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm super active on LinkedIn. Just for just search Doug Doug Dybert J R on LinkedIn. I'm on there pretty much probably way too often, but you could f we could find me on there too. So

John Jantsch (22:29.318)

Well I appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road, Doug.

Doug (22:34.072)

Perfect, John. Thanks for having me.

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Thursday, June 18, 2026

The 4 Marketing Channels You Actually Control | 7 Steps to Small Business Marketing Success – Episode 5

The 4 Marketing Channels You Actually Control | 7 Steps to Small Business Marketing Success – Episode 5 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Catch the Full Episode:

Overview

john jantschIf your biggest marketing channel disappeared tomorrow, how long before your pipeline dried up? For most small business owners John talks to, the honest answer is 30 days or less. That fragility is the hidden cost of renting your pipeline instead of owning it, and it’s the focus of Step 5 in the Seven Steps to Small Business Marketing Success series.

In this solo episode, John draws the line between rented channels (paid ads, search traffic, social reach) and the assets you actually control. Rented channels can produce results fast, but the rules change, costs climb, and a single algorithm shift can erase a healthy-looking business overnight. Owned channels work differently. You decide who’s on your list and what reaches them.

John walks through the four channels every small business can own: email, referrals, strategic partnerships, and direct human relationships. He shares a simple owned-versus-rented audit you can run this week, plus why the human element only grows more valuable as AI takes over the routine work. This one is for small business owners, marketers, and consultants who want a pipeline that holds up when the platforms shift.

Host Bio

John Jantsch is the founder of Duct Tape Marketing and host of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. He is the author of several books on small business marketing strategy, including Duct Tape Marketing, The Referral Engine, and The Ultimate Marketing Engine. He helps small businesses build practical marketing systems that produce predictable growth.

Key Takeaways

  • Test your risk fast: if your biggest channel vanished tomorrow, count how many days before your pipeline dried up. For many owners, it’s 30 days or less.
  • Rented channels (paid and most earned media) can scale instantly, but costs rise, rules change, and you never control them.
  • Owned means control. You decide who’s on the list and what reaches them, with no platform getting a vote.
  • Run the audit: list every lead source that produced revenue in the last 12 months, then mark each one owned or rented. If rented tops half, that’s your next area of work.
  • Email is your most direct owned channel, but only when the list is qualified, nurtured, and built with permission. It’s a content channel first, a sales channel second.
  • Write every email as if it’s going to one person, not 20,000. Personal beats broadcast.
  • A real referral system has three parts: a specific ask, a specific moment, and an easy path. Most businesses only do the ask.
  • Strategic partnerships with non-competing businesses serving your same ideal client are the most underused lead source for small businesses.
  • As AI handles more routine work, double down on the human channels: networking, speaking, associations, and in-person participation.

Great Moments

  • [00:01] John opens Step 5 and poses the test: if your biggest channel disappeared tomorrow, how fast would your pipeline dry up?
  • [02:07] Renting versus owning explained, why the rental model is fragile, and the owned-versus-rented audit.
  • [04:30] Channel one: email, and why it still works after years of people declaring it dead.
  • [06:52] Email as your first layer of content, not just a sales tool.
  • [07:12] The mindset shift: write to one person, not a crowd.
  • [09:33] The three parts of a referral system, then why strategic partnerships are so underused.
  • [11:49] Channel four: direct relationships, and why the human element matters more in the AI era.

Memorable Quotes

  • “If your biggest channel disappeared tomorrow, how long before your pipeline would dry up? For most folks I meet, it’s 30 days or less.”
  • “If you own it, you control it. You decide who’s on it and what reaches them.”
  • “Referrals arrive pre-trusted. They close faster and they’re less price sensitive.”
  • “Non-competing businesses serving the same ideal client are the most underused lead source a small business can have.”
  • “The more AI becomes part of our lives and businesses, the more the human element matters.”
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John Jantsch (00:01.708)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch, and again, no guest. I'm doing this series of seven steps to small business marketing success. This is actually episode number five. So go to the show notes. You can find all the other episodes if you are behind on this. but I'm gonna dive into episode or step number five. and this one really talks about pipelines. Having a great, healthy pipeline is awesome, isn't it? Unfortunately,

many people don't own their pipeline. And this is going to be easy to test. I'm gonna really talk that's what I'm gonna talk about today. But if if let me ask you this. If your biggest channel disappeared tomorrow, the platform shuts down, alg algorithms change, cost doubles. how long before your pipeline would dry up? be honest. most of the folks that I encounter 30 days or less. and that's really risky, and that is the cost of

Renting versus owning your pipeline. And I I want to talk about a little bit about those terms. If you own it, that means you control it. you decide who's on it, what reaches them. no platform's really going to change that is going to to to really make that go away. That's that's the true idea of owning. So I mean, you own your website, you own your email list, you own your social media.

To some degree, although those are really controlled as well. So I want to get into some of the things that I believe if you want to truly own your pipeline, you have to actually own all the assets that drive your pipeline to the extent that you can. Now, when you hear marketers talk about owned media, earned media, paid media.

When I'm talking about renting, really that's what paid media is. And to some degree earned media, which is great, the publication writes about you. some

John Jantsch (02:07.638)

search platform sends traffic to you. Yeah the social media platforms, you know, people follow you and you know on YouTube or something and and then click over to your website. Those are all things that you you kind of earn mentions. But again, those are really not under your control. I mean those are things that could theoretically go away tomorrow. YouTube changes their algorithm and you no longer get any traffic from it. so that's why I want to focus on this idea of own. you know someone else

on in on most pipeline, rented pipeline, somebody else owns it, you pay for access to it, you play basically by their rules. and and the the beauty of that, of course, is that that can happen instantly. If you're a new business and you go to Google AdWords and you open an account and you start advertising, I mean you can actually generate pipeline, you know, immediately. But as many people have experienced, that pipeline

Can get more and more expensive every single year, less and less profitable every single year. they change the rules, and all of a sudden you can't talk about your product or service in the way that you want to in your ads. I mean, there are all kinds of things that that are there. and a business and and the challenge is this rental model is very fragile, but it can be invisible too, right? A business can look very healthy.

Be chugging along, but it's 70% of their pipeline, 70% of their customer growth comes from rented channels. And all of a sudden, you know, they disappear overnight because something changed. So here's a here's an audit that I would tell you to do. You can do this live. lift up list every lead source that's produced revenue for you in the last 12 months. And I know sometimes that's hard to attribute where the revenue came from, but

Spend some time thinking about where your revenue comes from, what lead source, and start marking: is this owned? Is this rented? or you know, rented is the same as paid. you know, and and really kind of look at what's the ratio. All right. So I want to talk now. Now that you've done that, I'm gonna talk about the the the four owned channels and why you need to really put more emphasis, probably.

John Jantsch (04:30.828)

need to put more emphasis on those and less on the rented ones. So the first one is email. I've been around for a very, very long time. We started, we started, I think, heavily using email right at the end of like in the 90s, 97, 98, 99, all of a sudden email became a thing. everybody was, you know, really adopting it. And I swear, you know, once people, once people learned the marketing

value of having an email connection with somebody. Of course they started abusing it. And that's why a lot of people have then declared almost every year from about 2000 and well, let's say 2004 or so when social media started cropping up that the email was dead. How many times have you heard that one, right? At least for 15 years. But it still works. It's still one of the most valuable channels. and I

contend that it probably will remain. Now it it it has gotten harder to make effective. and that's really more because people have abused it and because people have other options that that they've spent on. And you know, there's so much spam and cold, you know, outreach that comes through those that have have actually made people, you know, not like email, if you will, but but a qualified email list that you have built over five years, direct, reliable,

owned is really one of the most efficient channels that you can have. But again, qualified, nurtured, not abused, members of that list can can be really one of the most valuable marketing assets that that a business has. key word again, qualified. people asked to be on it. It was not scraped, it was not bought, it was not added. this is

This is actually your first layer of content, if you think about it. The principles that make content work apply. Genuine point of view, useful, specific. So when you're sending email out, that is part of your content plan, right? So genuine point of view, built on one of your core principles, built on one of your hub page, one of your

John Jantsch (06:52.0)

elements that you're using in all of your marketing, all of your content. Ca email in a lot of ways is a content channel. It's not necessarily a sales channel. It certainly can be. You can earn the right to sell very directly in email, but it is first and foremost, it is a content channel.

John Jantsch (07:12.278)

And again, you know, a lot of I think a lot of people, partly because of spam and things that have gone on, you know, feel like, you know, email doesn't feel that exciting anymore, right? And I think that that's a lot of times the edge. you know, the the the real and and again, I'm not talking about necessarily all the ways that people are using it and abusing it. I'm talking about the ways that you have the ability to have a direct conversation. And that and that's you know, that's probably one of

It's one of things I forget all the time, but it's probably one of the core principles of email is we feel like, okay, this email is going out to 20,000 people. So we're writing it like it's going out to 20,000 people. What if you wrote it like it was going out to one person? That you told a personal story, that you were vulnerable, that you shared a a a point of view that might not be accepted by everyone. That's how you have to think about all of your writing.

You're writing it to one person. Whether it's a YouTube video, an email, a social media post, it's not, hey guys, hey everyone listening. It's hey, you one person, I wrote this directly for you, or at least you're gonna feel like I wrote this directly for you. That's how you make email, certainly a potent channel. I wrote an entire book about this second channel called the Referral Engine. and I'm

Happy to say that that book has remained evergreen because the referrals are not some hack that come about because of the next platform. They are genuinely earned if you actually focus intention on them. Obviously, you've got to do good work to get referrals. But after that, if you are intentional about how they are are created, referrals are they're probably for most of us, they are the best leads. they already

arrive kind of pre-trusted. they close faster, they're less price sensitive. They're more likely to refer other people because that's how they came to you. most small businesses, I think most small businesses, hopefully you do, receive some referrals, but they happen accidentally. that's hope. That's not a system. there are three parts to a an effective referral system. There is a specific ask, there is a specific moment.

John Jantsch (09:33.738)

And there is an easy path. So here's what I would here is who I serve and I would like what I would like you to do. you do that at a moment when the client or the yes, the the client or the you know, the person, it's the right time to ask them. It's it's the moment of truth, as I've called it before. And then you make it very easy for them. Most businesses are missing two and three. I mean, they think about like, yeah, okay, I I'm

Gonna go out and ask people for referrals, but I'm not gonna do it, I'm not gonna have it as a planned moment. I'm not gonna have it make sense, I'm not gonna actually make it really easy for them to do. You add those two pieces of it, and you know, right after the customer experiences something good, you make you make that ask land right then and you make it easy for them to do. Now, the the third channel is that you can own.

Is one that is a branch of referrals to some degree. not exactly. and that's partnerships, strategic partnerships. I don't know why more people don't spend more time on this particular channel. non-competing businesses serving the same ideal client are are probably the most underutilized, underused lead source that any small business can have. And it's it's not even close. I built in the early days my entire following, my entire business.

My entire platform around these strategic partnerships because it was so easy for me to take the fact that I was early on producing content and others, people started realizing we need content, we need to educate, we need to bring our communities together. And all of a sudden I was a ready-to-tap source. And so they put me in front of their audiences. So the ideal client.

Every one of your ideal clients needs other professionals. every one of your ideal clients has other needs. If you're in the home services business and you are an electrician, they also need a painter and a plumber and a roofer and a person to do landscaping. so if you could start to develop relationships with all the people that also serve your ideal client, and you can activate those relationships.

John Jantsch (11:49.54)

have them if if you have a podcast, have them on your podcast, you be on their podcast, write content for each other. There's lots of ways that you can actually start developing these relationships so that these strategic partners then have a have a a real reason, but also your top of mind when it comes to referring you. And then the fourth one is is still just direct relationships. The more AI becomes invasive.

Is that the right word? In our lives and our businesses, the more human element is going to become important. So if you're using AI to actually become more efficient and to free up time, take that extra time, take your team's extra time and start doubling down on networking, on speaking, on associations, on in industry, in person industry participation. Spend more time doing those kinds of things because.

those still pay off and they they're gonna pay off I think even more as people try to automate and and have you know robots theoretically doing their content. I I still don't know that we're ever gonna actually get to that point. But I think the real opportunity right now is to double down on the human content. So do that owned versus rented audit. Do it this week. if rented is more than half then really

The owned growth engine is really the work that you need to focus on. So this is step number five of the seven steps to small business marketing success. Hopefully you're enjoying this series. You can go to our website at Duct Tape Marketing to find the rest of the episodes or the rest of the steps in this. and and obviously six steps six and seven are coming. These are all if you just want to get the ebook all in one shot.

It is dtm.world slash seven steps. you can get it for five bucks. if you want to actually talk to one of our consultants, it is duct tapemarketing.com consultation. So if these are making sense, that actually next step might make sense for you. Go grab the ebook or go grab a a strategy call with one of our advisors. All right. Thanks for tuning in, and hopefully we'll see you one of these days out there on the road.

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