Embracing Mortality: How to Live a Life Without Regret

Embracing Mortality: How to Live a Life Without Regret written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with Jodi Wellman

 

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Jodi Wellman, an expert in positive psychology and author of You Only Die Once: How to Make it to the End with No Regrets. Wellman is known for her unique approach to living a life free from regrets by embracing our mortality and using it as a catalyst for meaningful change. Her insights offer a fresh perspective on how to live a life that is not only full but astonishingly alive.

Jodi Wellman’s journey into existential exploration and positive psychology provides listeners practical tools and motivational strategies for making the most of every moment. She emphasizes that confronting our mortality can lead to a profound shift in prioritizing and approaching our lives. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a more intentional and regret-free life.

Key Takeaways

You’re only young once, says John Craige, but I often wonder: How often are you old? Alluring, yet taboo. Compared to other cultures, On this side of the planet, we’re usually weird about the subject of Death.

According to this episode’s guest, It all starts with our denial. In her Tibetan Book of Death but with humor, Jodi Wellman reveals how embracing our mortality can be a powerful motivator for living fully without regrets with You Only Die Once. She emphasizes balancing vitality with meaning, setting anticipatory goals, and the importance of community and accountability in achieving a fulfilling life. Stick with us and learn how we can transform our lives into an astonishingly vibrant journey by making bold choices and integrating pleasure and purpose into our routines.

 

Questions I ask Jodi Wellman:

[01:42] How do people typically react when confronted with the idea of their mortality, especially in cultures where discussing death is less common?

[03:48] How can someone break free from the rut of monotonous routines, as illustrated by your stapler analogy?

[06:57] Why do you think people find the fear of leaving a situation—whether it’s a job or relationship—so much greater than staying in it?

[08:50] Are there recent trends or events driving people to think more about mortality and make changes, or have you just noticed it more recently?

[11:00] Does the idea of not living a squandered life give people the freedom to pursue their own happiness, regardless of other considerations?

[13:14] When someone feels stuck or unfulfilled, how do you help them explore and redirect their life path?

[15:46] What insights have you gained from observing people who have made significant life changes?

[17:13] How do you translate complex academic concepts into practical advice that resonates with people’s emotions?

[19:58] Where can people connect with you and find a copy of your book, “You Only Die Once”?

 

More About Jodi Wellman:

• Check out her Website
• Follow her on LinkedIn
• Grab your copy of You Only Die Once: How to Make It to the End with No Regrets

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by ActiveCampaign

Try ActiveCampaign free for 14 days with our special offer. Exclusive to new customers—upgrade and grow your business with ActiveCampaign today!

 

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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Testimonial (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients. It's changed my engagement with the team. I couldn't be happier. Honestly. It's the best investment I ever made

John Jantsch (00:16): .

(00:16): What you just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTM.world/scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach. Book your call today, DTM World/scale.

(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch, my guest, today's Jodi Wellman. She's a speaker, author, assistant instructor in the Master of applied Positive Psychology program at the University of Pennsylvania and founder of 4,000 Mondays. She really just wants people to live squander free lives without deathbed regrets. And we're going to talk about her book that deals with that very topic. You only die once, how to make it to the end with no regrets. So Jodi, welcome to the show.

Jodi Wellman (01:34): Oh, thanks. I'm excited to be here with you.

John Jantsch (01:36): So obviously the point of the book is no regrets, right? Or how to make it to the end without regrets. The hook, of course, is to shake people and say you're going to die. So how do you find that people take that? I mean, especially Americans, we don't like to talk about death. I mean, in Eastern cultures it's actually a very common practice. How do you find particularly people on this side of the ocean taking to this idea of you telling 'em they're going to die?

Jodi Wellman (02:06): Yeah, we are really weird about it. And yet it's a funny thing because on one hand there is the eyebrow raised. I mean, right now half of people listening are like, do I keep listening? What am I doing here? Wait, I'm kind of all lured. What do I do? And so I've noticed this really kind of cool, wait, tell me more. And yet we're scared and it's okay. We come by. Our denial, honestly, especially like you said, Western cultures, we don't really want to talk about it, and yet we do want to talk about it deep down where it gets a taboo and it's like, therefore it's alluring. And so it's this kind of neat dance between don't talk about it, but can you whisper it? And so for me, I mean, I make fun of it. I clearly, I use a tone that's irreverent and which I couldn't not do, but I doodle about it. If you can doodle the grim reaper, I mean, you can talk about anything if you could doodle it.

John Jantsch (02:54): So I am sure you've done a lot of, there are a lot of texts that have dealt with this. One of my actual favorites is, it's going to sound really creepy, but the Tibetan Book of Death is actually an amazing work. And I feel like your book is kind of the Tibetan book of death with humor.

Jodi Wellman (03:09): You know what? I'm going to log that one. That's the compliment I've received of the week woman.

John Jantsch (03:13): So I suggest if folks want to pick up Jodi's book, I suggest you get the audio book because it's basically a standup routine.

Jodi Wellman (03:21): Thank you for saying that. We do have a lot of fun. There are a lot of F-bombs. And I mean, if we're talking about the fact that we're all totally going to die, and I think you're hinting at this, we're talking about death in a way that is not just to talk about death, even though it is sensational and ridiculous, it's in service of carpe diem of living before we die. But we need the prod, we need the cattle prod, or else we do just take life for granted. Do you find that?

John Jantsch (03:46): Yeah, and I think particularly, so you talk about 4,000 Mondays. I'm on the three digits probably of Mondays. So it's certainly been a wake up for me. And I think a lot of people in my position in life, I do think a lot of people particularly, I mean we don't think about it all. The first 1000, right? 2000 through 3000. I think that's where everybody gets stuck in, well, this is what I'm doing. You use the stapler idea that maybe you could actually recount that story in your own unique way to talk about that idea of just being stuck.

Jodi Wellman (04:17): Yes. Well, here I was in my corporate existence, things were good, but they weren't really adding up how you're in life and you're like, why am I not happier? The trappings of success. I wanted to make a change, but I didn't know what to do. And so I remember being at my desk and I was stapling stuff together, and lo and behold, I run out of staples. That's no big deal. All right? I get up, I go find the storage room, I get a row of staples, and I replace it in my stapler. And I distinctly remember saying to myself, if I'm still here, by the time this row of staples is here, I better not be. And I felt encouraged by this notion like, oh, I've got a 200 staple deadline only. The thing is, John, is I did nothing about it. So about a year goes by, I'm at my desk again, ready to blow my head off, but pretending everyone thought I was engaged. And then I stapled more pages together and my stapler runs out, and I felt sick to my stomach, but obviously I was hoping to be saved. I was hoping someone would headhunt me and pluck me out of this quiet life of desperation when oh my gosh, I had to learn that lesson. And the truth is, I reloaded that stapler like three times

John Jantsch (05:23): Before, and staplers weren't exactly having a day still, right? I mean, there weren't a lot of things that we were stapling anymore.

Jodi Wellman (05:30): No, yes, this is an indication of several years. But I needed to learn that in a way, holy, why can we have agency? We have to clue in sometimes to where we are feeling like we are settling in life. That for me, is a real warning sign if we're settling and tolerating for long. Oh my gosh, back to this idea that life's short. Let's do the thing even though it's hard to just take the plunge and take the risk to shake it up and find more happiness.

John Jantsch (05:56): So there are a lot of examples, and you have some in the book, near death certainly wakes people up, right? Going bankrupt wakes people up. I mean, there are a lot of things where comfort is actually kind of like the enemy, right?

Jodi Wellman (06:09): Oh, you said it so well. I mean, I love a good comfort zone. Give me a fleece blanket and I, I'm under it. And it doesn't do much for making stuff happen in life. So these are called boundary situations in psychology where it could be a big birthday, it could be retirement, it could be a loss of a job. Any rite of passage in life that jolts us a little bit to go, whoa, my world has been moved. Maybe it is a bit of an existential reminder when you have the big birthday, but those are important to be super honest. I mean, a lot of us in the science of positive psychology, we talk, it's like a crappy reality, but it's the crappy stuff that elicits the most meaning in life. And most of us will, we need the impetus, we need the inciting event, and we're just not motivated enough to do it on our own accord.

John Jantsch (06:57): So I mean, the person that you described is stuck in a job, stuck in a marriage, stuck in whatever. Is the fear of leaving that so much scarier than just staying put? That's kind of a vice, isn't it?

Jodi Wellman (07:10): Absolutely is. And this notion, as I said in my TEDx talk, this line I still think is really important. And it's like our fear of death is rivaled only by our fear of living. Most of us are not pleased about the idea of death or of public speaking, but we can at least deny and get around that. But the idea to commit and participate and maybe make some bold choices, even though we know they're the ones that are probably going to be the best for us, the ones that, again, back to regret, you started our conversation by outlining the books about avoiding regret. It's like when you're lying there, hopefully lots of morphine coursing through your veins at the end would be there with their vein thing where you're like, I just regret not doing that. And if that could be the case, now's your chance to course correct it and maybe take action on it. Literally starting this afternoon,

John Jantsch (08:01): And I'm probably guessing it is not. I just wished I would've worked a few more hours,

Jodi Wellman (08:07): Only I'd answered more emails.

John Jantsch (08:09): So you have some quotes in here. One of my favorites in this topic, I believe is attributed to EE Cummings, the poet, and he said, most of us will regret on our deathbeds, not our sins of commission, but our sins of omission. And I think that to me beautifully wraps that up. The things we didn't do, not the bad things we did, but the things we just didn't get around to.

Jodi Wellman (08:29): It's so true.

John Jantsch (08:30): Yeah. So you cite, there's a lot of literature really on this. Ryan Holidays stoics, you put Mente Maori in there. That's been a symbol that he's used in his writing. I had Oliver Berkman on the show, 4,000 weeks, I think it is. And so is there something going on that is causing people more to consider this, to write about this, or have I just noticed it more recently?

Jodi Wellman (08:58): Yeah, you're just tuned into it with those triple digits.

John Jantsch (09:00): That's right.

Jodi Wellman (09:01): Yeah. No. Well, I believe that there has been, again, this equal kind of repelling and yet fascination with death. But let's just be honest. I mean nothing like a global pandemic to wake us up to our temporary nature. So I do think that has tuned us in a little bit more to, whoa, whoa. The things I thought were, we do this delusional thing where we like to think, oh, I'll have time to do it later and later is very elusive and it's very comforting and fuzzy. And now whether it was the pandemic did help us go, wait, I want to reorganize my priorities, and maybe now that means that I have to take it more seriously. Yeah,

John Jantsch (09:41): It's my pleasure to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. Our friends at ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign helps small teams power big businesses with the must have platform for intelligent marketing automation. We've been using ActiveCampaign for years here at Duct Tape Marketing to power our subscription forms, email newsletters and sales funnel drip campaigns. ActiveCampaign is that rare platform that's affordable, easy to use, and capable of handling even the most complex marketing automation needs. And they make it easy to switch. They provide every new customer with one-on-one personal training and free migrations from your current marketing automation or email marketing provider. You can try Active Campaign for free for 14 days and there's no credit card required. Just visit active activecampaign.com/duct tape. That's right. Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Listeners who sign up via that link will also receive 15% off an annual plan. That's activecampaign.com/duct tape. Now, this offer is limited to new active campaign customers only. So what are you waiting for? Fuel your growth, boost revenue and save precious time by upgrading to active campaign today. Okay, so let's go to the other end of the spectrum. We will come back to dead zones. Maybe you talk about not living a squander free life. Does that give people permission to say, screw it, I'm just going to do whatever I want to do and I'm going to make myself happy and everything else be damned? I mean, is there the risk of going too far?

Jodi Wellman (11:13): Yeah, I mean, that would be one hell of a month

John Jantsch (11:16): Because

Jodi Wellman (11:17): I think you would whoa, the party and then you would drain your bank account and you would probably ostracize yourself from all of your friends potentially, and certainly your partner. And yeah, here's where I look at this. There is a potential for some people who maybe are a little more impulsive and maybe don't have as good of a self-management skills about the idea, do I go and spend more money now to enjoy my life and then maybe risk not having as much later, or do I save every penny I have so that I make sure I'm comfortable in retirement and live life then, which we all know is, but then I'm going to be, again, wasting my life and living small. Now, it's always going to be the awkward balancing act. And my shortcut to finding the answer to that is about asking yourself what you would regret and what you would regret doing and not doing.

(12:07): So there's one woman I know who is, she's planning a really big expensive family reunion trip. She's going to finance it and take her family on a really fabulous cruise. And she said, I've done the math, and her grandma's about to die. So there's a bit of a sense of urgency, nothing like death to prod us along again there, John. So she's like, I've done this and I've calculated it. It's a big deal for me to do this financially and with time off. And she's like, I would regret not doing it. But she also knows that by doing it, she's not going to compromise her retirement or she's not going to not pay the mortgage for seven months because she took her family on this cruise. So these are about choices where it's like, am I on the verge? Is it still technically responsible, or is this going to cause more anxiety and peril because well, wow, on a whim, kids, we're just going to move to the Croatian coast, but you haven't planned any immigration stuff and next thing you know, that's going to be a bigger problem. So I do think it's always about what would I regret doing and what would I regret not doing, and am I going to blow up my life later?

John Jantsch (13:08): So the middle ground, I suppose, is living astonishingly alive. Perhaps somebody comes to you and says, they probably just come to you saying, I have a feeling I feel stuck, or I feel like something's missing or whatever. How do you help them unpack and find and reroute the course, I guess?

Jodi Wellman (13:29): Yeah, I like that term. Well, the number one thing is to diagnose the dead zones. Lots of tools and ways in the book. It's in a pre-mortem, which is like, let's look at your life today, what's working, what's not? And it's about saying, whoa, now that I do this thing, I realize my social life or my lack thereof, or the fun and recreation category. Whoa, I didn't realize that had flatlined as much as it had, and that, wow, I think I might want to pick up a hobby again. And so sometimes it's about identifying in, you can't unsee it ways about where your life is feeling dead. That gives you a starting point to know where that you might want to throw yourself a fricking buoy in the water and say, well, what would that look like? I also look at life in two dimensions.

(14:12): So it's wider with vitality, which is the fun and the pleasure and the neat fun experiences. And then it's deepening it with meaning, and that's having a sense of purpose and good meaningful relationships, and maybe spirituality if you want, but it's deeper stuff. And so for most of us, we do have a sense of whether we want more of the vitality and or more of the meaning. And again, that's a diagnosis of like, no, my life is meaningful enough. I've got a job that makes me feel like there's purpose, but I am just so freaking bored. I might want to add in a little more fun. What would that look like? And again, all we can ever do is one thing at a time. So would maybe in this example, hypothetically, what would one thing be? Can I get nosy and ask you if you're thinking about your life widening with vitality, deepening with meaning, is there a dimension that stands out to you that you might want a little more of, even if it's already

John Jantsch (15:01): Good? No, mainly because I'm very intentional about this. The one thing I will say that's lacking a little bit, and this is just I have a distributed team. I'm here in the mountains in Colorado, in a rural area. I can go for literally weeks without seeing another human being besides my wife. And so probably forcing some of that interaction that, and I think some of us have just developed that habit because of this stupid thing called zoom. We don't even have to go see clients anymore. It's amazing. So I would say that's probably the area that would come to mind first.

Jodi Wellman (15:33): Maybe just a touch more of the social side. Yeah, yeah. The antis shining situation.

John Jantsch (15:38): Yep. Yep. So you, I'm assuming that because you work with people, you've had a couple successes with people breaking through a little bit. What are some of the things you've learned actually from seeing people make a change?

Jodi Wellman (15:52): I love this question. Well, I think about in workshops I do, which is mostly the case now doing keynotes and workshops with groups and teams and events. And it's like there's something that's really cool that happens when you socialize your regrets that you might be having or your desires for more vitality and or meaning and bucket list stuff. People love to learn and go, oh, oh, that's right. I wanted to learn how to speak Italian too. And all of a sudden, everyone's adding to their lists. There was a group I worked with recently that did this really cool thing, which is kind of what I advocate, but they actually did it, which is what if you supported each other in living these full lives? Oh, outside of the confines of work. Because the presumption, and this is based in research, which I go into in a hopefully not boring way, is about how if you're happy and well-rounded and fulfilled outside of work, you're going to be way better when you're in work and more productive and more creative and this, so this group all committed to things that they were going to do to either feel widening, deepening, and they held each other accountable.

(16:53): So then I came back around one quarter later and it was like, someone's like, oh, wait, what a rafting. I'm so proud I did it. And someone else was so excited because they rekindled their music habit. Someone else was really excited because, well, this person did the orientation to be a volunteer at the local whatever, because you have to go through all the steps. So they were actually holding each other accountable and high fiving each other for not just the work outcomes, but for living. And that was a pretty cool thing that again, builds trust on a team. Then you're all supportive of each other's lives in a broader sense.

John Jantsch (17:25): Yeah, you start seeing 'em as people. Oh my gosh, that's got to be against some HR policy somewhere. So I think I said actually, sorry, instructor of master of applied Positive Psychology. So how do you take that academia and bring it down to practical applications for human emotions?

Jodi Wellman (17:47): Yeah. Well, everything that do, every intervention, every recommendation is rooted somewhere in the science. And it's typically positive psychology, but it could be other branches of social psychology or cognitive or other parts of psychology. And so for example, if I'm talking to somebody about one little life tip, if you will, I call it like this, the lowest hanging fruit is anticipation. It's having something to look forward to. And so I have this very simple intervention where it's like, take out your calendar and you want to have something to look forward to one week in advance, one month in advance, and one year in advance. And these can be big or small, I don't care. But that is all rooted in the science of savoring. And so I don't need to necessarily give people the references or details, but I will let them know at the beginning of every workshop that it's rooted in the science. And when I'm writing my blog posts, I will post it. I will give the reference. But I'm glad you asked that question because it matters to me that things are generally empirically based, not just like an instinct. Not that those things don't also deliver for some people. There are some people I know who swear by putting out manifesting, and that's really great. And if that works for you, do it all the time. And I don't have the evidence necessarily on some topics, and so I just would not go there personally. Yeah,

John Jantsch (19:01): Yeah, absolutely. So it is funny, as I listen to you talk about the anticipation, I remember, that's certainly advice people give when I have aging parents and things that my father passed. It's been a few years now, but I remember them actually talking about saying, make sure that he's got something to look forward to. And obviously that works at all ages of life, but I imagine it's probably even more dramatic in a case where somebody feels like they don't have much going on.

Jodi Wellman (19:32): It's a really good point. It also has applications for people who have more of clinical issue in terms of mental health issues, depression, just having that little thing on the calendar that might be just a glimmer, and we're just really simple creatures at the end of the day. Right? It's like, just tell me I've got a good meal coming on Saturday night and I'll live for it.

John Jantsch (19:49): Yeah, it's our subconscious completely controlling us. So Jodi, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by. The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is there's someplace you'd actually invite people to connect with you and find a copy of. You Only Die Once.

Jodi Wellman (20:05): Oh, well, thank you for asking. I am over@four.com and the book's there and fun stuff. Resources, you can calculate how many monies you have left there. So no excuses not to do your mortality math.

John Jantsch (20:15): Yeah, there's a lyric in a song that I heard the other day that I thought was so funny. The artist goes on and says, if you're only young once, how often are you old? And thought that's really like a lot of people say, oh, you're only young once, right? And I thought, well, okay, how often are you old? I think you ought incorporate that in somehow.

Jodi Wellman (20:35): Thank you. I'm writing that down on my yellow sticky. Thank

John Jantsch (20:37): You. John Craigy is the artist, so go look him up. He's hysterical. Too alive. Well, again, Jodi, I appreciate you taking a few moments and hopefully we will run into you one of these days out there on the road.

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Marketing For Supervillains

Marketing For Supervillains written by Tosin Jerugba read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with Jesse Wroblewski

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Jesse Wroblewski, the founder and CEO of a New York-based marketing agency and the author of Marketing for Supervillains: Diabolical Tips on Differentiation, Decommoditization, and World Domination. He has close to 30 years of experience in the marketing industry and has been featured in prominent media outlets like Rolling Stone and Fangoria. Known for his offbeat yet practical approach, he shares proven differentiation strategies that help businesses stand out in any market.

Key Takeaways

Jesse Wroblewski highlights the importance of adopting a supervillain mindset to differentiate your brand. He explains that smaller businesses should use creativity and wit to compete with more prominent, established brands rather than trying to outspend them. He emphasizes the value of polarization in marketing, stating that being loved by a few is better than being mediocre to many. He also introduces his “universe of differentiation” concept, outlining practical ways to stand out in a crowded market.

Authenticity is crucial for successful differentiation, and brands should align their unique selling propositions with their core values and strengths.

 

Questions I ask Jesse Wroblewski:

[01:29] Can you elaborate on using supervillains as role models in our marketing?
[03:20] When can polarization be beneficial in marketing?
[06:16] There are numerous Japanese references in your work. What draws you to Japanese culture?
[07:26] Could you highlight a few of your 12 differentiation methods?
[09:34] What’s more important to consumers: being better or different?
[11:56] How can conservative brands embrace differentiation without fear?
[13:02] What common traps do new clients fall into when trying to differentiate?
[14:27] How does authenticity impact marketing, positively and negatively?
[16:12] How can we stay current with trends without looking like we’re chasing every idea?
[18:43] What outdated marketing practices should be discarded immediately?
[21:04] Where can people connect with you or get your new book, “Marketing For SuperVillains: Diabolical Tips on Differentiation, Decommoditization, and World Domination”?

 

More About Jesse Wroblewski:

• Connect with Jesse Wroblewski on LinkedIn
• Visit his Website
• Grab a Copy of Marketing For Supervillains
• Check out his Youtube

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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Testimonial (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients. It's changed my engagement with the team. I couldn't be happier. Honestly. It's the best investment I ever made. What

John Jantsch (00:17): You just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTMworld/scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach. Book your call today, DTM World slash scale.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch My guest today is Jesse Wroblewski. He has been at the helm of a New York marketing agency for close to three decades, is often offbeat work has been featured in Rolling Stone, the book by five weirdest websites ever, and fan Gora, as well as a plethora of other media outlets. He's also the author of a book we're going to talk about today, marketing for Supervillains, diabolical Tips on Differentiation, de commoditization, and World Domination. So Jesse, welcome to the show.

Jesse Wroblewski (01:39): Thank you so much. I figured my last name was long enough, so I decided to make all my intros and my titles even longer. So mouthful. Well done.

John Jantsch (01:50): Yeah, there was some hard words in there, that one. But speaking of names right, I usually ask us ahead of time. Did I nail the pronunciation?

Jesse Wroblewski (01:58): You did it well, absolutely.

John Jantsch (02:00): Awesome. Alright, so my first question is, what's a supervillain got that we need to be using as a role model?

Jesse Wroblewski (02:08): Sure, sure. So there's actually a lot of parallels. The first parallel, obviously being after 25 years of being in marketing, I think we all a little mad sometimes. So it's some cynical takes on what's going on in marketing. But what the real mantra was when you are a challenger entering a market, there's usually always a mega brand, a name brand in the vertical, and that name brand is kind of like a superhero. They have huge public favor, they have huge muscles, which in marketing equates to huge budgets. And for a smaller guy entering the market, it's almost a recipe for disaster to try and go head to head with them and try to out be more popular or spend more money. So if you think about movies, the supervi usually doesn't have all the resources a superhero has. They certainly rarely have the same muscle tone, so they have to use their cutting wit and brains to outstart the bigger guy. So a lot of the book comes from an underdog mentality, a challenger brand mentality, and using things that the tried and true marketing that everybody else is doing, where you might not be able to compete on social media or SEO or pay-per-click going where the other guys,

John Jantsch (03:21): I noticed quite often with supervillain, there's a bit of polarization too. I mean, a lot of people love the supervi in a movie, and of course a lot of people really hate them. Is there an element of that in our marketing that is actually kind of good to be a little polarizing?

Jesse Wroblewski (03:35): I think so. I think so. Being everything to everyone means you're nothing to anybody. So I think I'd rather be adored by a few than in the middle of the road with a lot of people.

John Jantsch (03:48): So there are a whole lot of industries out there that feel, again, emphasis on the word feel, what they do is a commodity. I mean, there's no way for me to differentiate except be the cheapest out there. What do you say? There might be occasionally a case where that's true, but not very often, quite frankly is what I've discovered. And so what do you say to somebody that just feels like, oh, I dunno, we're this kind of company and everybody's the same?

Jesse Wroblewski (04:16): Yeah, absolutely. Because the crux of the book, so in the book, excuse me, most marketing books will tell you, run out, find your differentiator, and then figure it out and tell it to the world nice and succinctly. And that's I meant task, right? That's not easy to

John Jantsch (04:31): Do.

Jesse Wroblewski (04:32): So in the book, I codified 12 different ways that brands throughout history have successfully differentiated themselves. And for those that say, I'm really not that special or I can't be, we're just like everybody else. I always hawken back to the ultimate commodity, which is water. So water in the developed world is free, and if the government came along and said, what you do for a living, the government's now going to offer for free. How would you continue to get people to pay a premium for something that can get for free? So rather than carrying a bucket of water around with you all day, which is free, you buy bottled water in the tune of 17, 18 billion a year, what are you really buying? Chances are you're buying convenience of not carrying that bucket around, or maybe you have a bottle of water in your car and you're buying refrigeration because it's cooler in the refrigerator. So there's a lot of byproducts for what we do. So you could say, I'm an accountant, I'm a marketer, I'm a this, I'm a that. But chances are you're not really selling accounting, you're not really selling marketing, you're selling peace of mind, you're selling convenience, you're selling all these things that are secondary, but in the back of people's minds, you're actually curing a lot of anxieties. So I say any brand, any product in the world can absolutely be differentiated if you have enough courage.

John Jantsch (05:52): Well, and I remember Perrier and Evian, those water were cream brands. It was like, oh, you're drinking that. Again, I think some of the shine has gone off of that, but I think at one point when it was unique, that was what they were selling was like, we're the trendy water.

Jesse Wroblewski (06:09): Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and the water industry just keeps growing and growing and us suckers keep throwing money at it.

John Jantsch (06:17): I'm curious, there are numerous Japanese references and throughout your work, is there a particular interest in the culture?

Jesse Wroblewski (06:24): I'm a lifelong martial artist, so I guess coming from, I was always the smaller guy in school, smaller stature. I was in, I think the largest high school in the country with 2,600 students, and I was the smallest guy in the high school. So I guess that was some stem of me kind of joining the martial arts. And there are a lot of, I say parallels or a lot of things that don't equate to the English language, but are very relevant to lifestyle and marketing.

John Jantsch (06:54): Yeah, I think what's interesting for other cultures is a lot of times there's a word that literally means it doesn't mean anything, but it's a concept, if that makes sense. I never can remember it, but I live in the middle of a national forest and the Japanese word for forest bathing, which now I can't remember, but it's not a literal translation to that, but it's a concept. I don't know if we have many words like that in the English language that can't really be translated other than a concept or a feeling. So you started talking about the, I think you said 11 or 12 ways. Is that your universe of differentiation? So do you want to hit on a couple of those by name?

Jesse Wroblewski (07:37): Sure, sure. So on my website there is a download of what we call the universe of differentiation, and it's just a visual guide of 12 different planets that have each identified as a different way to successfully differentiate your business. And then once you figure out which differentiator resonates with you, your business, your brand history, then we kind of take a look at who lives on that planet. So who would be most attracted to that differentiator? So out of the 12, there are some common ones. So the first one that people are usually drawn to are definitives, differentiating by definitives. And you probably experienced this because this is the high time of differentiation for the summer. If you've ever seen an ad for a theme park, they use this differentiator like crazy, specifically talking about their rollercoaster. We have the tallest, the fastest, the scariest, the longest, the oldest, the most.

(08:34): The nice thing about differentiating by definitives is you rarely get challenged. So you can make pretty boastful claims, and there's usually not a metric to challenge it. So you metric becoming commoditized. As a general marketing agency owner, I felt that I was on the verge of becoming commoditized. So I felt that I was usually the driving factor. Even though a client paid me money, I was always driving to get them to launch their website, give me your copy, give me your approval. So I deemed myself the world's most proactive agency, the most proactive agency on earth, the no homework agency. So it's a fun little way, you might need some additional differentiators, but it's a fun exercise. Kind of say, Hey, I'm sticking a stake in the ground and this is my domain. I'm the blank industry.

John Jantsch (09:19): 25 years ago, I started calling Duct Tape Marketing, the world's most practical small business marketing brand. And same idea, I had heard a couple of people tell me, well, your stuff is just so practical, but you're right. I mean, nobody's going to say, show me the statistics on that. Right? We're more practical, better versus different. That's an argument. I think a lot of people is like, we have the best widgets and well, that's fine, but we have purple widgets. Which one of those do you think from a marketing standpoint is more important to a consumer?

Jesse Wroblewski (09:46): So I liken it back to differentiator versus USP unique sales proposition and people, they usually get them confused, and I'll give you the best analogy that I can figure out. So going back to the example of water, the ultimate commodity there is a brand, one of my favorite brands, not only for water, which tastes the same as all the other waters, but for a marketing in general, which is liquid death. Have

John Jantsch (10:10): You heard of it? Yeah. I mean it's absurd. So they have captured the imagination of the millennials like nobody else.

Jesse Wroblewski (10:18): Exactly, exactly. So while all the other brands are chasing their USP, Hey, we are hydrated more, we have a better delivery system, all these different things that tell you why their water is better, liquid death came along and just differentiated themselves and created a lifestyle brand to a very niche audience. And in my opinion, that differential blow away any USP that claims they're better at what everybody else does.

John Jantsch (10:47): Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead after you, sir. I was just going to say, so to some extent is one of the real goals of differentiation to actually project emotion feeling. You said lifestyle, I mean that whoever you're trying to attract is actually more attracted to that than really any feature of the actual product or service.

Jesse Wroblewski (11:09): So I say finding your successful differentiator is the mic drop moment. So we, as marketers, and lucky for us, we get in bed with the company and it's a rebrand. So we got to get a new logo, and then the competitor gets a new logo and it's like, oh, we got to redesign our packaging, and then the competitor redesigns their packaging and we got to lower our prices and the competitor lowers their prices. If you could find that differentiator, that is the thing, here you go. No one can touch us. You can lower your prices, compete with us on a logo, the arms brace, that differentiator is checkmate. You can't copy, you can't clean up our dust. So I think that's kind of the checkmate moment in marketing.

John Jantsch (11:52): So over the years, I'm sure you've experienced this, I have as well, particularly maybe a little more buttoned up brand that feels like, well, we're architects, we're professional service providers. This is what everybody in our industry does, which to me is the ultimate opportunity for differentiating, but they're scared. I mean, wait, we don't want to be seen as how do you get somebody over that idea that that's actually screaming at you to be different?

Jesse Wroblewski (12:20): Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the common question I get asked, which you illustrated perfectly is different, is usually synonymous with odd or weird. But in the universe of differentiation, we have examples from brands like Rolex, Steinway, pianos, they all use the universe of differentiation to successfully differentiate themselves. And you may not associate Rolex with being different in your brain, but they're head and shoulders above the competition because they have successfully differentiated themselves. So it's not just for the outlandish or the guy that's not afraid to wear a weird shirt for everybody.

John Jantsch (13:02): So when you go to start work with somebody, or maybe you've just seen people do this, you may not be a client of yours, what are some of the biggest traps they fall into? They're like, drink the Kool-Aid. Yes, we need to be different. But then they screw it up.

Jesse Wroblewski (13:18): Everyone asks me, how do I get the client over that final hurdle? So everybody comes to the table, whether it's marketing or whether it's fitness, I want to get fit. I'll do anything. I'll get up at 5:00 AM I'll run 50 miles, and then five weeks from now you're sleeping in and in that discipline. So I tell my clients that I am great at branding and differentiating, but I suck at reading minds. So trying to get them to be vulnerable and look, we have at minimum 12 opportunities to differentiate If you say, Hey, you know what? I really don't feel like comedy or being approachable is synonymous with my brand, let's figure that out upfront. That way when we get to the finish line, I don't come up with you with this crazy outlandish head, and now you got to stay up at night. We'll get all the vulnerability out of the way in the beginning, and we could make great decisions leading up to the finish line. And then the rest is data. What is the data support? Then we pull the trigger. So it's never a frictionless effort, but I think setting the bar, setting the table properly can be very beneficial.

John Jantsch (14:27): What role do you think authenticity plays both for good and bad? I mean, we're a stodgy old brand, but we're going to do something to so those kids like us, and it just doesn't really come off. I mean, so how important is it that it not only be different, but it be real and true?

Jesse Wroblewski (14:46): Yeah, so I think it's a term that's thrown around too

John Jantsch (14:50): Completely.

Jesse Wroblewski (14:52): No one knows what the hell it means. But I say in my book, and I am absolutely guilty of this, I failed a bunch of times repositioning my agency, and it was great fodder for the book. And one of the ways I failed was I was 100% logical about my repositioning, which means I found an industry that had a problem that I could solve. They had a ton of money that they were throwing in marketing, and I basically said, Hey, I can come in and revolutionize this market, but when it came down to writing a blog about it or attending a trade show, I was like, it was homework. It was nothing I would've had rather done. So it really wasn't authentic to me. So I think it's not a pivotal ingredient, but if you can align it with your differentiator, that's such a huge leg up on your path to success. So if you are a differentiation pairs with your natural authenticity, it's going to be a huge headstart for you.

John Jantsch (15:50): Alright, let's talk a little bit about rebranding. You see a lot of companies out there that feel like, oh, it's been five years since we've done this, and sometimes they're sort of informed by trends. I mean the hottest business going, apparently today is an AI marketing agency, and 10 years ago it was a social media marketing agency. So how do we balance that idea of we want to stay current, but we also kind of look silly chasing the idea of the week?

Jesse Wroblewski (16:23): Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a tough question that I don't necessarily have the answer to other than every pendulum is going to swing the other way. So we were actually contemplating at our agency as everybody's trying to be AI this AI that coming right out and saying, we are the 100% human agency, anti ai, everything you get will be created by a human with human feel, human emotion. So if you're thinking of chasing a trend and it doesn't feel authentic or it's rubbing you the wrong way, maybe the pendulum coming back the other way, you might be able to position yourself for the future.

John Jantsch (16:59): Yeah, I mean, once Twitter put out a user guide, all of those social media marketing agencies went out of business, didn't they? And I think it's important to really understand that fundamentally what we're here to do, you would probably agree with this in the marketing space, actually hasn't changed. I've been doing this for 30 years as well, and I think that's probably a point of view that people lose track of, isn't it?

Jesse Wroblewski (17:21): Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I put out a video just kind of a lot of the perspective of my book is a cheerleading for our fellow marketers. So we as marketers have been through a ton of revolutions, and if I say, if your marketing agency didn't call you and try to get you to open your wallet for NFTs, clubhouse, the Metaverse, all these things, you should call them up and just thank them, right? Because as a salesman, I'm always looking for a chance to upsell, but I have a fiduciary responsibility to tell my client, Hey, you know what? Maybe we don't invest in Snapchat right now, or maybe we don't jump into the metaverse. And often distaste they kind of want it even though I tell them not to. So it takes a ton of integrity to be a marketer and that easy money in regards for your client's wellbeing.

John Jantsch (18:12): Yeah. The question that has served me well over the years is when some new tool has come along, I've said, how could this help me serve my existing clients better? And if I couldn't really see a practical way to do that, I mean, NFTs, I was drawn by the hype, but I just looked at it and went, what? How? Yeah.

Jesse Wroblewski (18:34): Yeah. And it's hard. You get those phone calls, Hey, I want to do an NFT, and it's easy money, but it's also you got to battle with your integrity. So yeah, I agree.

John Jantsch (18:44): Sitting where we are today in 2024, we're recording this. Are there any current shortcomings in traditional marketing practices that we all still see or have seen for the last 10 years that you think people need to immediately chuck?

Jesse Wroblewski (18:59): Yeah, I think exactly what you just touched upon. So I'm a big analogy guy. So I am not a party goer. I kind of go to the party, I make sure everybody sees me, I make my appearance, and then I bounce. So I could say I was there. I think a lot of businesses take that approach with social media. They just want to be in the conversation. They don't provide any value, they don't even provide a dialogue. It's more of a monologue, and they're just putting mindless content out there. And I think as I call it, commoditized content. As commoditized content grows, and now we're seeing a massive spike with ai, how much content, completely useless content is going to be swarming these social media platforms. There was an interesting stat that came out for the first time in human history. Something happened on the humankind level that people are willing to pay more for less meaning people have suddenly realized that instead of paying a hundred dollars to my cable company for 200 channels, which works out to 50 cents a channel, I'd rather pay $5 for one channel and get rid of all the crap.

(20:05): So I call it human climate change. We're changing the way we take in content because there's just so much of it. And I think that's unquestionably going to be in the form of marketing, particularly social media, where if you're putting out crap, people are not only going to ignore you, they're going to repel you and do whatever they can to get you out of their funnel of

John Jantsch (20:25): Well, and I think marketers for the last 10 years have gotten pretty lazy ad targeting. It's been pretty easy to do. Actually getting results in search engines has actually been pretty easy to do if you knew what you were doing, and I think it made a lot of marketers lazy when some of that goes away, I think a great deal of what you're talking about is going to be the thing that draws into specific businesses.

Jesse Wroblewski (20:49): Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, they just took away the middleman and now everybody can market and everybody shouldn't market. It's in our forum. I think we're going to finally start learning that again.

John Jantsch (20:59): Yeah, more than ever strategy. So Jesse, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by. Is there someplace you'd invite people to connect with you or certainly pick up a copy of marketing for supervillains?

Jesse Wroblewski (21:09): Sure. I would love everyone to check it out. It's all available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and I tell everyone that I am at heart a frustrated filmmaker, so I put lots of explosions and lasers into my YouTube videos. So if you find me on commoditized on YouTube, I'm sure you're going to find a video on there that's entertaining and educational.

John Jantsch (21:31): Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you spending a few moments with us. Hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

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Weekend Favs July 20

Weekend Favs July 20 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but I encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one I took on the road.

• Focus@Will– Uses AI to create personalized music playlists designed to improve focus and productivity.
• Focuster– An AI-driven productivity tool that prioritizes your tasks and schedules them into your calendar.
• Wordtune– An AI-powered writing companion that helps you rephrase and improve your sentences.

These are my weekend favs; I would love to hear about some of yours – Connect with me on Linkedin!

If you want to check out more Weekend Favs you can find them here.

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Transform Your Leadership: The Power of Thoughtfully Fit

Transform Your Leadership: The Power of Thoughtfully Fit written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Darcy Luoma, an expert on leadership and personal development. Author of Thoughtfully Fit® and Certified Speaking Professional, Darcy Luoma is a highly sought-after coach and speaker who has worked with over five hundred organizations in forty-eight industries to create high-performing people and teams. The concept of “Thoughtfully Fit” is a framework designed to help individuals and teams enhance their performance and navigate challenges with greater agility. This episode is packed with rare insights on transforming any agency’s leadership approach by integrating thoughtful practices into your daily routines and organizational culture.

Key Takeaways

Darcy Luoma explains the “Thoughtfully Fit” framework, emphasizing self-awareness, agility, self-management, and building stronger interpersonal relationships. Our conversation provides practical tips for integrating the “Thoughtfully Fit” principles into your daily leadership practices. These tips help leaders at all levels foster a more thoughtful and practical approach to managing teams. She also highlights the broader implications of adopting this mindset, including personal growth and a more fulfilling professional life. By focusing on thoughtful practices, leaders can achieve a balance that enhances their personal and organizational success. Leaders can improve decision-making, adaptability, and team dynamics by reflecting on their actions and fostering a collaborative environment.

 

Questions I ask Darcy Luoma:

[01:58] How do you go about making high-functioning people?

[03:01] What is the difference between being physically and thoughtfully fit?

[04:12] Talk about how the framework helped navigate your personal life.

[06:00] What role do our thoughts play in how we show up or act?

[08:11] How hard is it to make progress with people unaware of their blind spots?

[10:47] What does a coach do compared to a consultant or advisor?

[18:39] Is practice key, or are there other ways to improve?

[20:48] Is there someplace you want to invite people to connect with you and grab a copy of Thoughtfully Fit?

 

More About Darcy Luoma:

• Visit her Website
• Check out her LinkedIn
• Grab a copy of Thoughtfully Fit: Your Training Plan for Life and Business Success
  

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by ActiveCampaign

Try ActiveCampaign free for 14 days with our special offer. Exclusive to new customers—upgrade and grow your business with ActiveCampaign today!

 

 

Duct Tape Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients. It's changed my engagement with the team. I couldn't be happier. Honestly. It's the best investment I ever made. What

John Jantsch (00:17): You just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTM.world/scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach. Book your call today, DTM world/ scale.

(01:05): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Darcy Loma. She's a highly sought after coach and speaker who's worked with more than 500 organizations in 48 industries to create high performing people and teams. She balances running her thriving business with raising her two energetic teenage daughters and competing in triathlons. She's also the author of a book we're going to talk about today, thoughtfully fit your training plan for Life and Business Success. So Darcy, welcome to the show.

Darcy Luoma (01:38): Thanks, John. It's great to be here.

John Jantsch (01:40): Can you make me a high performing people? I really, that would be amazing. Can we just spend 20 minutes working on me?

Darcy Luoma (01:46): Absolutely. You know what the number one thing is, John, if you want to be high performing. Absolutely. We cannot make someone be high performing who just loves being a couch potato and metaphorically, right?

John Jantsch (01:59): Yeah. So I'm going to jump around and get way off my question that I was going to ask. I suspect you have lots of people that say, Darcy, I read your book, fix My People.

Darcy Luoma (02:08): Yes.

John Jantsch (02:09): And so how does that go?

Darcy Luoma (02:12): Well, how that goes. I mean, absolutely. And one of the things I'll say, if there's, whether it's A-C-H-R-O or a president or whoever it is that calls and says that depending on what they're looking for, let's just say they say, I've got a vp, and here's what's really common. John, the person, whoever it is, whatever their title is, they're really good at their job at the technical. They're a great lawyer, they're a great engineer, they're a great carpenter, whatever it is, but they struggle in the interpersonal and the team dynamics and the leadership. And so if they come in and say, fix them, the first thing that we'll say is, do they want to be fixed? And do they think that they have a problem? Because save your money if they don't think they have a problem and they don't want to improve, that's what's key. That's the first of success.

John Jantsch (03:01): So the book is thoughtfully fit. You do play a little bit on, obviously you're physically fit and you play a little bit on that metaphor. What's the difference between the two really in your mind?

Darcy Luoma (03:11): Yeah, yeah. It is a metaphor and what I find is when I train and practice for a triathlon, I do better. I get better results. I am less likely to get injured. They're more fun, I feel better afterwards. The same thing is if you want to get better results in work and in your relationships in life, you need to train and practice. So most of us don't know how to have a tough conversation, how to deliver hard feedback, how to say no when you're overwhelmed and you're asked to chair the volunteer fundraiser in your community and you feel so bad. So what I find with coaching clients is that what we do in coaching, they're coming in, they're essentially training and practicing so that they can have better results and fewer regrets in life. That's the through line for the metaphor being physically fit and thoughtfully fit.

John Jantsch (04:00): So you start the book off with a chapter in your life that was a little tough. I'm sure you've told the story a hundred times. You don't have to go into the details here, however, talk a little bit about how, I mean, you talk about in the book that the framework that you've developed actually help you get through that. Talk a little bit about how that model helped you navigate.

Darcy Luoma (04:19): It really did. I mean, whether you're a business person or an entrepreneur or, so, we have challenges, we have problems, we have uncertainties, whatever it is, big or small. I'm no exception. So when my life blew up, I found myself at a place where I needed to. I didn't need to. I had just finalized the thoughtfully fit model, and in this case, I'll give just the tiniest context. I'm happy to share more, but what my husband was arrested for sexual assault of a minor, and I had to hire my own attorney, and my attorney said, Darcy, don't talk to anyone about anything. And so here I was at the worst moment of my life and my support system was cut off. And so I became ground zero to test drive this model, which we incidentally had just finalized five days before. To be able, at the core of the model are three simple steps. You pause and think before you act. And so there were so many examples, John, where I was blindsided and I was caught off guard, and I was just in a world of hurt. Where had I reacted in the moment? I would have done something or said something I'd later regret. And so I became really the test case to utilize the thoughtfully fit model in my own life.

John Jantsch (05:38): So one of the first, I mean the framework has three major components. Each of those components has a couple of steps. You hinted at a couple of there, but let's back all the way up to how unaware are we of what our thoughts do to us in terms of, again, I say unaware. I think a lot of 'em are subconscious, they're habitual. They're what role do our thoughts play in how we actually show up or act?

Darcy Luoma (06:05): Everything they absolutely do because you think about if you show up at a meeting and somebody is leaning back and their arms are crossed and they're disengaged, and your thoughts are, you know what? He never liked me. He didn't think I should have gotten this promotion. And your thoughts start going, it affects your behavior and all of a sudden you're acting and you're snippy or you're short, you're cutting 'em off. There's a

John Jantsch (06:29): Direct correlation. You're sweating. You're right.

Darcy Luoma (06:32): Yes, yes, exactly. There's a direct correlation to our thoughts that feed into how we're feeling and what our behaviors are.

John Jantsch (06:40): Yeah, yeah. I remember when I first started speaking 25 years ago on stages, and I mean I had never done it before, but I knew I needed to, so I got out there and did it. But I remember, I mean, I would get hot and I would get mean physically because I'm always thinking, am I smart enough or do they like me instead of what am I here to give, which you eventually come to, but it's actually not just your actions. I mean, I think it's your physiology, isn't it?

Darcy Luoma (07:07): Absolutely. And so the key is it's not to minimize those thoughts or make those thoughts go away. Our humanity, we're going to have that imposter syndrome and Oh, am I ready? Is this audience, do they believe me and all that? That's our humanity. When you're thoughtfully fit, you raise your awareness of those thoughts. So instead of those thoughts controlling, you have awareness, and then you can consciously choose like, okay, you know what? Whether or not I'm the right person to be on the stage, I'm here and I'm going to knock it out of the park so that you can reframe it and choose how you're going to move forward despite those thoughts, that can be really, like you said, that can really create the physiological response in you.

John Jantsch (07:50): One of the things, I've interviewed lots of people that write leadership books and coaches that work on trying to help people get to achieving their goals. And it seems like a theme, a common theme that I hear over and over again is the either lack of or need for or work on self-awareness before you can even start the work. Do you find that in yours as well? I mean, when you're working with somebody, if they aren't aware of their blind spots, if they aren't aware of how this is going on, it's pretty tough to start making progress, isn't it?

Darcy Luoma (08:19): Absolutely. You're right on. And I think that's probably, if there's anything that's most important, that's where it starts. And I even think about John as a triathlete. So I have a coach and we just started open water swimming two weeks ago here in Madison, and I'm out there swimming, and I've been swimming a long time, and my coach will point out my blind spot. She says, Darcey, you right arm is crossing way over your body, and that's why instead of swimming straight, you are swimming to the left. That is something that without that awareness can't, it's a blind spot for me. And with that awareness, now I can adjust what my behavior is and straighten it out. In that case, literally, it's the same thing with how we show up, whether it's as a leader or a team member, if we aren't self-aware of the impact we might have RB F1 of my speaker friends calls RBF resting bothered face. You might not be aware that people think that you're angry or upset when in the reality is like, oh, I'm just thinking and this is my thinking face.

John Jantsch (09:29): Yeah, it's my pleasure to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. Our friends at ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign helps small teams power big businesses with the must have platform for intelligent marketing automation. We've been using ActiveCampaign for years here at Duct Tape Marketing to power our subscription forms, email newsletters and sales funnel drip campaigns. ActiveCampaign is that rare platform that's affordable, easy to use, and capable of handling even the most complex marketing automation needs, and they make it easy to switch. They provide every new customer with one-on-one personal training and free migrations from your current marketing automation or email marketing provider. You can try ActiveCampaign for free for 14 days and there's no credit card required. Just visit activecampaign.com/duct tape. That's right. Duct Tape marketing podcast listeners who sign up via that link. We'll also receive 15% off an annual plan. That's activecampaign.com/duct tape. Now, this offer is limited to new active campaign customers only. So what are you waiting for? Fuel your growth, boost revenue and save precious time by upgrading to active campaign today. So you mentioned coach, it seems like these days, coach, consultant, advisor, agency, I mean, the terms seem to all be blending together In your definition, what is a coach there to do?

Darcy Luoma (10:57): Well, I'm a little bit of a stickler, John, and most of the world isn't a stickler, but I have. So I'm a master certified coach and I've worked my tail off to earn that degree. And what basically, the reason I say I'm a stickler is because when you're a coach and you're truly doing pure coaching, you're holding the other person as the expert, whether it's the client or the team or the relationship. They have the answers and the wisdom and the expertise. And as a coach, you are helping. You're mirroring back what you're hearing. You're asking tough, powerful questions. You're pointing out blind spots and hard truths. If I come in as a teacher, a mentor, an advisor, a consultant, I'm the expert. Let me tell you what, and both are valuable. I'm just a stickler that be clear on what you're doing and have the ethics to be able to articulate which hat you're wearing in any moment.

John Jantsch (11:53): Do you sometimes have to fight this to say it's obvious dummy? Here's the answer.

Darcy Luoma (11:58): When I first started, absolutely, that was the hardest thing ever. I train coaches and that's one of the first things they say is, but darcey, why would I ask a question when I know what they should do? And that's a false premise because you have no idea what they should do. You know what you think they should do based on your history, your beliefs, your stories, your values, but you have no idea what they should do. Once I got through that and started to get better results when I resisted the urge to fix, tell, solve, advise, now it's easy. Now it's not even hard to resist because it's so much more powerful, but absolutely the first several years, it was painful. It was so hard.

John Jantsch (12:40): One of my favorite quotes, I attributed Stephen Covey, somebody probably said it before him, but as no one sees the world as it is, we merely see the world as we see it or as we are. And I think that's so true. I mean, you really have no ability to assess what's going on because you never have all the information. So break down your framework a little bit. We started talking about the core, go ahead and maybe give us the high level sketch.

Darcy Luoma (13:05): Yeah, the high level. So we started looking at what are the themes. We started to see, okay, we've got all these clients that come in. At the end of the day we say, okay, what do you want coaching on today? And we found that there are six main obstacles that get in the way of peak performance. Three are internal where we get in our own way, and then three are external where there's challenges with other people. And so I'm happy to give a high level sketch of those six if you'd like or not.

John Jantsch (13:30): Yes, do it. Yeah.

Darcy Luoma (13:31): So the first one is there's so much to do. I can't even think that aligns with the thoughtfully fit practice of stillness, which is about being able to quiet the mind. And of course, just like if you want peak performance as an athlete, you need rest days. You need to recover your muscles, build stronger. The same is true if you want to be thoughtfully fit. The second internal practice is we have clients coming in saying, oh, Darcy, here's what I'm coaching on. I didn't handle myself the way I wanted to and name the situation. And this is the practice of strength, which is being able to consciously choose how you show up in every situation, even if your thoughts are trying to get you to unconsciously react on autopilot. And then the third internal is getting stuck. So that was a common theme that clients would come in, they're stuck in a job they don't love, stuck in a relationship, stuck with a project, and endurance is the thoughtfully fit practice that helps you to overcome those obstacles to get unstuck. So I'll pause there. Those are the three internal,

John Jantsch (14:34): And this probably is true for both internal and external, but I'm sure a lot of times we're just, we have ingrained habits. Somebody pushes a button and we react the same way. Even if a hundred times we've said to ourselves later, I do that. So what are the ways do practice or what are the routines or rituals to you talk about practice with your coach. This seems like something that you can't just one day go, oh, I'm not going to do that anymore. You have to actually build some muscle or resistance or ability to pause or whatever it is.

Darcy Luoma (15:09): That's exactly what it is. So it's just like you're training physically to build your muscles. In this case, you're training your mental muscles and you just named it. And at the core, I mean we've got lots and lots of tools and a lot of exercises on how you can build resilience and all of that. But I'll just say for the benefit of your audience here today, that's why the core is what it is. Those three steps, you have to pause first, and that is what's important because it kicks you off of autopilot. Once you have paused, that sets you up to think. And in the model think is about asking some powerful questions, what's triggering me right now? What do I need? What's hard about this? What would be the ideal outcome of this conversation given that I feel attacked? And with the new awareness that you have from thinking, then you can act thoughtfully and that you talked about those habits, those well worn ruts. If somebody attacks you and you don't pause to think, you just react and you go right back to that habit and you yell, you cry, you shut down, you stonewall whatever it is. And so that ability to pause and think in the moment gives you a chance to pivot and to act more thoughtfully.

John Jantsch (16:23): Well, I hate to sound like a quote machine here today, but you just hit remind.

Darcy Luoma (16:27): I love quotes. This is

John Jantsch (16:27): Great. Reminded me of another in Vitor Frankl's book. Yeah, there is a moment between reaction and response and in that moment, Azar freedom or something like that. I misquoted it a little bit, but I really, that's a quote that really does a lot for me in that same regard.

Darcy Luoma (16:44): Absolutely. That freedom to choose that lies between that stimulus and response, that's where the power is.

John Jantsch (16:49): Yeah. So the second half external. So it's all the stuff that comes at us, especially in the workplace.

Darcy Luoma (16:56): Yeah, absolutely. So the first external is somebody come into coaching and say, okay, Darcey, how can I get fill in the blank, my boss, my colleague, my spouse to be different. If they would change, I could be happier. And I don't disagree, but spending energy and time trying to change somebody else or being angry, they're not the way you think they should be is a waste of time. So that is the thoughtfully fit practice of flexibility that's being able to stretch to accept others just as they are, instead of trying to change them to be the way you think they should be. And then the second, excuse me, external practice is creating relationships that have a win. So a lot of times they come in and say, I'm in this relationship, it's stressed out and there's a win-lose mentality. Either I want to win, I don't care what happens.

(17:47): They're sort of aggressive and that might work in the short term, but certainly in the long term it doesn't. Or there's other people whose default is to lose, keep the peace. I'm not going to say anything. It's not a big deal. And so this is the practice of balance, which is being able to balance what do you want and need with what I want and need so that we can achieve alignment in the relationship. And then the last practice, the last hurdle that we found, obstacle that gets in the way of success is people reacting poorly when blindsided. And so being able to have the agility, this is the practice of agility to respond thoughtfully instead of reacting on autopilot.

John Jantsch (18:29): Do you find that, so there's a whole lot of parts here. So somebody goes through, they listen to you on stage, give a keynote, or they spend an hour with one of your coaches. This is a months long, maybe years long process. Is it not to maybe correct some old habits, instill some new one by one, have enough? You talk about practice, you have to get triggered enough times and say, oh, I handled that one better. I mean, is that what you find or do you find people are able to just turn the switch on and start saying, I'm just going to do better?

Darcy Luoma (19:04): I think it's both. So certainly just like if you say, okay, I want to get physically fit. Doing one sit up once a month isn't going to do it, but doing sit up and starting where you are and saying, okay, I'm just going to go buy some running shoes and I'm going to jog four blocks and walk back home key. So you start where you are and you certainly can flip a switch and say, I want to be better. I want to improve. I want to be more thoughtful. I want to be less reactive. I want to set better boundaries. I'm overwhelmed. I'm saying yes to whatever it is that's getting in the way. You can start now and you can see success. And just like if you do train and you do the marathon on Saturday and it's like, yes, I'm fit. Well come Monday. It doesn't stay forever. You need to keep training and practicing. And the same is true with being thoughtfully fit. There's constantly new layers of self-awareness and training that you can do to have the emotional intelligence to be able to show up the way that you want and to break those habits and to not get triggered.

John Jantsch (20:07): It's almost like I'm hearing an intentional plan as well. You also don't wake up and go, I'm going to get fit and I'm going to run a marathon on Saturday. Right? Sure. You have people that do the same thing, right? It's like, I'm doing all nine of these tomorrow as opposed to like, okay, let's work. Let's peel this layer, let's peel that layer. And it becomes an intentional plan and practice, doesn't it?

Darcy Luoma (20:30): It really does, John, and I think you can't do it all at once. You cannot. Cram is indeed a journey and to be, that's both the good news and bad news, but to be consistent is what's key to see those results.

John Jantsch (20:44): Yeah. Well, Darcy, I appreciate you taking a few moments to come by the Tape Marketing podcast. Is there somewhere you'd invite people to connect with you and find out about your work and as well as maybe get a copy of Thoughtfully Fit?

Darcy Luoma (20:54): Yes. But first let me just say I am a super fan and I'm so honored to be here. We love Duct Tape Marketing. We love your team, and so I just need to make sure to share that how thrilled we are. And darcy loma.com is our website. If somebody wants to take a quiz to find out which of these six obstacles are their biggest, then go to thoughtfully fit.com and you'll get the results immediately, and then a training plan so you can start to train to get thoughtfully fit.

John Jantsch (21:21): Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you taking a few moments and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

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