Saturday, July 13, 2024

Weekend Favs July 13

Weekend Favs July 13 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but I encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one I took on the road.

  • Emplifi– Provides customer experience solutions that help businesses engage with and support their customers across social media, digital, and contact center channels using AI technology.
  • Usemotion– A productivity tool that helps users manage their schedules and tasks by automatically organizing and prioritizing their calendars.
  • ImagineArt– Generates unique and creative images from text prompts using advanced AI algorithms

These are my weekend favs; I would love to hear about some of yours – Connect with me on Linkedin!

If you want to check out more Weekend Favs you can find them here.



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Thursday, July 11, 2024

Transform Your Business with the Metronomics Framework

Transform Your Business with the Metronomics Framework written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

 

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Shannon Susko, a strategic business coach and author renowned for her innovative Metronomics framework. Her expertise lies in transforming businesses through her unique growth operating system, helping leaders achieve sustainable growth and balance. Beginning with the Metronome effect, In our conversation, Shannon Susko defines the Metronomics framework and explains how it can revolutionize the way CEOs and leadership teams approach growth, strategy, and execution.

Key Takeaways

Like a Metronome, the CEO sets the speed of things.

Shannon Susko’s Metronomics Framework transforms businesses by bridging the gap between strategy and execution, emphasizing the role of CEOs as consistent leaders and fostering cohesive, accountable leadership teams. This growth operating system focuses on setting long-term visions, breaking them into short-term goals, and utilizing a behavioral accountability platform to maintain team alignment and productivity. By navigating the three growth phases—foundation, momentum, and compounding—Metronomics ensures sustainable growth and a balanced, enjoyable work environment.

 

Questions I ask Shannon Susko:

[01:55] How did your journey as a CEO form the Metronomics framework?

[03:08] Would you say, like most entrepreneurs, you went well-informed to gain the success you have today?

[05:06] How did you develop the term ‘Metronomics’?

[08:01] How is this different from other growth frameworks?

[10:45] As a CEO, how do you keep the momentum of the Metronomics Framework going?

[17:54] As a business coach, how big of a hurdle is the CEO and their inability to “let go”?

[19:33] Is there anywhere you want to invite people to connect with you or find out more about your work?

More About Shannon Susko:

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

 

Speaker 1 (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients. It's changed my engagement with the team. I couldn't be happier. Honestly. It's the best investment I ever made. What

John Jantsch (00:17): You just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTM world slash scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach. Book your call today, DTM World slash scale.

(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Shannon Susko. She is a celebrated for her strategic prowess team leadership and financial acumen, having successfully co-founded Lead and sold two companies. Within six years. She developed the Metronomics framework fostering rapid growth and successful exits, and now she coaches CEOs and is the author of a number of acclaimed books, including metronomics one United System to Grow Your Team, company and Life. So Shannon, welcome to the show.

Shannon Susko (01:38): Yeah, thanks, John. Great to be here.

John Jantsch (01:40): You had a lot of hard words in your bio that I almost tripped over several times. I don't

Shannon Susko (01:45): Know where that bio came from, John. I was like, so who is that person? Is someone on my team is working the word magic.

John Jantsch (01:55): So let's just start with Metronomics. What was the genesis of it? How did your journey as a CEO form it?

Shannon Susko (02:04): Yeah. Well, it started in my first company. Metronomics has been around for 24 years. It's a growth operating system, and it's one that we built out a pure, desperate need to figure out how to unlock a way to grow a company and have fun doing it. And so it was our first business. We were stuck and we decided with my leadership team that we brought in from all over the world, I said, there must be a system. I asked my coach, you've got to have a system, right? Repeatable system. How are we going to do this? And you know what? My coach of all he'd already built, grown, sold many companies, and I say many because I don't even know how many. And he's like, yeah, no, you're doing the right things. You're learning from the right people. Keep going. And I was like, no, we got to find a way. So that's where Metronomics came from. It's a growth operating system to save leaders time and get them having fun in their business, get them outside the business, find the balance.

John Jantsch (03:08): So I don't know if I would call you a business book junkie, but Yes, yes, I am. I hear you reference a lot of books and a lot of names that are people that I know. Would you say that all good entrepreneurs, that a lot of those people informed where you ultimately ended up?

Shannon Susko (03:25): Yeah, I mean, absolutely. When I was asking for the system, I kept asking, there's got to be a system. Give me the book for two years, 24 months. I read four books a week because I actually didn't believe there wasn't a system. And so in doing that, and then, yeah, I haven't stopped reading books. I still read a book a week at this point, not four, but at least a book a week. But you know what? All the great thought leaders out there, Jim Collins, Michael Porter, and all the genres and all the different systems in the business, they all gave us the what, right? And so you'd learn the what, and you'd go over and do that, and you'd play Whack-a-Mole on the cultural system, or you'd play Whack-a-Mole and the human system or the strategy system, but none of them were connected. And I was like, okay, we got that fixed. Now this broke run over here, run another. So we took all those great things and we actually plugged them into the system. It's like when you think of my background's technology, so when you think of a computer operating system that's running Mac or Windows, many things plug into it, but it's like the system that works day in and day out. That's what Metronomics is. And we love taking all the different things that companies need and we plug it in when it's needed.

John Jantsch (04:53): So I'm curious about the term where you landed on, I'm envisioning Sister Colette, my first grade piano teacher and the metronome metaphor. So how did you come to Metronomics is the term?

Shannon Susko (05:09): Yeah, well, funny enough, first book is called the Metronome Effect. And when I wrote that book, finished the book, finished it all, couldn't think of a name. I checked all these names, went out for a run, and there's a metronome on my Garmin.

(05:27): And I was like, oh, that's really interesting because the metronome sets the speed at which you're going to run, play the piano, and the CEO is the metronome in a business. They set the speed at which you're going to grow your business. So that's where metronome came into play. I did have a piano teacher as well. I did all those grades. I did have it sitting up on the piano, but it made me think that day, okay, you set the speed and you must hold that speed or rhythm or whatever it is. So that's where that came from. Metronomics came from the word metronome, which represents the CEO, who gets to set the speed. We want a consistent speed in the organization, not one that goes fast and slow, fast, slow. So economics is the other word. And it was really about the balance of your life and your business, your economics, balancing your time with the dollars.

(06:22): So there's a whole piece that we have in there, but that's what I was fighting, is balancing teen business and life. So that's where the economics piece came from and there's definitely a method to that madness. And then the third word, and there's a fancy word for how we made up this word, I don't remember it today, but I know it's in the last chapter of omics, the book itself. But it's metrics and metrics. What we learned are not the things you track, it's the things you forecast and the things you control that flow through your business. And so everybody who works on a team in a business owns a thing. They do a thing every day, and there's so many of those things they do every day, and we call them widgets. So a metric represents a widget. And so those three words made up metronomics, which is this big long word, and maybe we shouldn't have made up that word, but we did because it represented the things that flow through the business, represent the team that needs to connect to them. The metronome represents the CEO and the economics is the outcome you get, which is balancing your business and your life because most CEOs, especially startup CEOs, but even when you get to eight, 10 years, people are tired of the same old one. They can't seem to unlock it. And this unlocks it, right? It gets you back your life so you have fun again and gets you the team you'll want to work with.

John Jantsch (07:51): So you mentioned a couple of names, Jim Collins, Vern Harnish, Gino Wickman. I mean of all people that you recognize the names of creating similar systems. If somebody said, how are you different or how is Omic different?

Shannon Susko (08:06): It's a great question, John, because I grew up on the late nineties on Rockefeller Habits, which was wearing Harish and learning pieces of that, and we had pieces of that. And then Gino's work where the EOS came out later, but he grew up at the same time with rock habits. And if you take great game of business, Jack Stack and all the mini games that happen, they're all very much influenced in all of this. And we put those pieces in place. We created the cash system, we created the execution system, we had the cultural system, we had those pieces, but there was still a gap in the middle. And the gap was the strategy and the strategy system. And the biggest difference is that by having your 10 to 30 year goal and having your annual goal, which scaling up EOS is great, they're great execution and cash systems, and they line up with the long term, our three year highly achievable goal.

(09:09): That's the difference. That's the thing that connects your long term to now, and it's so close, you can reach out and touch it. It's 12 quarters, but you must lay out the execution quarter over quarter, 12 quarters straight to get there. And the system itself, the strategy system, not we know these days is not like, oh, we create a strategy, our five year strategy, it's happening strategy we have to talk about every day, week, month, quarter, year. And this allows us to give that connection and the alignment to the team and that word widget and that word metric in regards to a three year highly achievable goal connects your team to where you're going. It connects everybody in the company to the overall team results. And that's the difference. Now, do we love a company? I love a company doing EOS, and they usually get to a point where they need to look further that strategic piece, and we just layer right on top of it. If you're doing scaling up, Metronomics will layer right on top of it. It takes everything they've learned about a discipline execution system with a little bit of strategy and some of the cultural pieces and just puts it onto a little bit more of a timeline. Rocket ship of three years. It really challenges it.

John Jantsch (10:36): I dunno if this is the deliverable or the objective is to create kind of this repeatable playbook that the whole company uses. How do you stop that? How do you keep that alive? As I listened to you talk about it, so many people create systems and playbooks and nobody can actually even find the darn thing anymore a week later. So how do you keep that thing alive?

Shannon Susko (10:55): Yeah, so the way you keep it alive, you can write it down, you can have it out, and everyone goes, oh, isn't that wonderful? And then nobody does it. At the end of the day, metronomics is about behavioral accountability, and at the end of the day it's about behavior with your team on the field. And we actually created a field, a virtual field. It's a behavioral accountability platform that is called, we call it Metro, the company. It's in as metronome growth systems, but it is the metronome in the platform. Everybody logs in to the platform every day, and a lot of people go every day. They look at what they said they would do, they look at the cadence at which they set it. All the meetings are run through that platform day, week, month. And it really starts with how does the playbook stay alive?

(11:47): Well, number one, a coach that understands the playbook, so I'll put my coach hat on for a second, but at the end of the day, it's the CEO O with the leadership team, commits to the team habits, the team habits of the playbook, and that's what keeps it alive. When the ceo, EO and the leadership team don't want to do those habits anymore, the playbook, we evolve the habits, but they don't want to do it anymore. The playbook is just a really nice system sitting there that no one will use. And as well as I know in any business, a system is only as good as the users of the system. You got to use the system to keep it alive.

John Jantsch (12:29): Well, and that was really going to be my next point. I mean, a lot of what I think stops great companies is that they get to a certain point where building a leadership team is different than managing a company. And so how do we evolve with this, right? We build the playbook, it's awesome, but now we've got new problems.

Shannon Susko (12:51): So the interesting thing is we have the seven systems that all connect to one another and they exist in any business, whether you want to acknowledge them or not. That's one of the biggest things I learned early on in business. But the thing that we found in Metronomics and with the research we've done over the last 14 years is that there's three phases of growth that every company will be in at some point and some may never get out of the first phase, which is the foundation phase. It's the very first phase. There's five things that we've really got to pull the lever on to move from the foundation growth phase to the momentum growth phase. The third growth phase is the compounding growth phase. Most companies, whether it's called that or not, it doesn't matter. Most companies get stuck there because it's a willingness to have a repeatable cash system and put the effort in to forecast cash first, have an execution system that works without the leaders, but in order to have that, the leadership team must be, it's the CEO plus all the functional leaders that we have in companies, and it has to be whatever the definition of that team is, a hundred percent A players.

(14:10): And the last thing is it must be cohesive in order to get that far. While we're doing all that in the foundation growth phase, we're mapping the strategy and to keep it all aligned. Mapping the strategy gives us strategic pictures, whether we have all those other things working or not. We can still map our strategy, but it's lining all those things up so that I always say, it doesn't make it easy. It creates some ease, it takes some pressure off. We get some growth results just from picking off each one of those things, which actually brings the team back to keep doing it, that actually will take the team through to the other side and really grow the system. I always say the playbook meets you where you are. And so I go into companies and they have an A player leadership team. It's cohesive.

(15:06): They have a cast system and they have a great execution system that's working without them. I go, fantastic, let's get the workout strategy. Because what they're looking for, others come in that phase and they may have a couple of those things, but they might be stuck on that. A player leadership team. It depends how that team is formed, but we're going to meet the teams there and that keeps it alive in the phase that they're in. And then as they pick off the critical path, we know there's a critical path for growth. We will move to the momentum phase, which you got to keep all those things alive in the foundation phase. Then we got to validate with confidence and strategy so that we can make better foster decisions to keep up with the speed of growth of the organization. We need to take the leadership team to that next level of cohesiveness.

(16:01): I call it team trust 2.0, but it's where they're at the point now that they have the time to coach their team, work on strategy and grow themselves into Jim Collins would call the level five leader Bill and Bob, Adam, scaling leadership would call it integral leadership. But it's actually that next version of the leaders. They have time to grow themselves at the rate the company's growing. And of course the last phase is compounding. We see companies go into the compounding phase top line, and they can't sustain it, right? Because the thing that all those things have to be true in the first two phases. The last phase is you got to basically what we call the coach cascade system. You've got to cascade out the growth and learning of your team members in order to keep up with the growth of the company. And those are the things.

(16:57): That's why some of the clients I've had for 11 years, and someone goes, have they not got it yet? But the playbook has evolved as they have evolved, and it's really fascinating to me. It's really fascinating, but very much reflects my tenure journey and my first company where it's not a straight line across the growth phases. And once you get there, it's not that you necessarily always stay there. The external environment can push you back. Your team coming and going can push you back, right? Your strategy can push you back. So yeah, it's really exciting to actually put this in place and a team gets so good at it, they forget about it, they forget about the system, and then they're just thinking within their business, but following the cadence.

John Jantsch (17:46): So I'm tempted not to ask you this question because we are close on time, but I know it's a big one. How big of a hurdle is the CEO and their inability to let go in your work?

Shannon Susko (18:02): Yeah. I love working through the phases of this with a CEO EO because, and what I call a desperate CEOI was a desperate CEO. My coach could have said, stand on your head Shannon and spit out nickels, and that will get you there faster. I probably would've done that. And there's different levels of desperation on how bad you want to win whatever winning is for that company. And so what I find is CEOs will, I was on a call earlier this morning and they do whatever. They'll follow that system because of where they want to go. So I always say it's how bad does that CEO EO, and I'm going to go plus leadership team want to win their game. That is how fast a CEO let go of things. And once they start letting go take off the sales hat and give it to someone else and take off the finance hat and give it to someone else, and they see the time, they get back to doing the things that are in their sweet spot, it goes a lot faster. But it's just got to give 'em a little inkling of what it might be to let it go. But they've got to want to, there's lots that don't. They think everything's great, and if they think it's great, then it's great, and they're going to grow along at one to 3% a year and fantastic. As long as they're having fun, life's too short.

John Jantsch (19:28): Absolutely. Well, Shannon, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there anywhere you would invite people to connect with you and find out more about your work?

Shannon Susko (19:37): Yeah, you can absolutely just look me up on LinkedIn, Shannon Byrne, Susko on LinkedIn Easy, although I think the only one out there with that name and as well on metronomics.com, everything's there. Lots of free resources, webinars. Yeah, please come and join our community if you're interested.

John Jantsch (19:56): Awesome. We got a Canadian resources there too, just to put a little fine point on that.

Shannon Susko (20:01): Yeah. Oh good. Yeah, absolutely.

John Jantsch (20:04): Awesome. Again, well hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.



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How Music Transformed My Business Approach

How Music Transformed My Business Approach written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

 

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Stephanie Sammons, a certified financial planner and accomplished singer-songwriter.

Stephanie always enjoyed songwriting, singing, and guitar-playing and got involved in Nashville performing songwriter workshops. She worked diligently to improve her skills and decided to go ‘pro’ with this career at the encouragement of some of her Nashville-based songwriting mentors. She released her first full-length album ‘Time and Evolution’ on May 3rd, produced by Mary Bragg (highly respected singer-songwriter and one of the only female producers in Nashville). Stephanie was selected as a 2024 Kerrville New Folk Finalist, one of the most coveted competitions in the songwriting world! (they chose 24 songwriters out of 1340).

Sammons shares her unique journey, from a successful career in financial advisory to embracing her passion for music. Her story exemplifies how following one’s passion can lead to unexpected synergies and a more fulfilling professional life.

Key Takeaways

Stephanie Sammons shares her journey of embracing her “passion” (as most people in the industry detest calling it) for music alongside her financial planning career, highlighting the courage needed to pursue dreams at any age. She discusses balancing her dual careers, the transferable skills between financial planning and songwriting, and the importance of community support in both fields. She emphasizes creating space for creativity through daily routines, illustrating how integrating passion into professional life can lead to a more fulfilling and enriched career.

 

Questions I ask Stephanie Sammons:

[02:25] Would you say Ning was ahead of its time?

[03:50] Would you say a platform like Facebook then was another advancement of Ning or completely derivative?

[07:53] How would you define community?

[14:03] How important is having a clear and compelling purpose in designing your community?

[17:13] How do you manage having so many feature requests?

[21:18] Do you have an interesting case study of how someone achieved great financial success starting with a community?

[24:44] Is there someplace you want to invite people to learn more about Mighty and connect with you?

 

 

 

More About Stephanie Sammons:

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by ActiveCampaign

Try ActiveCampaign free for 14 days with our special offer. Exclusive to new customers—upgrade and grow your business with ActiveCampaign today!

 

 

Speaker 1 (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients. It's changed my engagement with the team. I couldn't be happier. Honestly. It's the best investment I ever made. What

John Jantsch (00:17): You just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTM world slash scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach.

John Jantsch (00:57): Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantz. My guest today is Stephanie Simmons. He's been a financial advisor and planner for 25 years, launched her own registered investment advisory firm in 2017. She believes in growth at a reasonable pace and is selective about who she takes on as a client. Good lesson in that one. She's also enjoyed songwriting, singing, guitar playing, and got involved in Nashville performing singer songwriter workshops, and she released her first full length album, time and Evolution of this past May produced by Mary Bragg. She was also selected as a 2024 Kerrville new folk finalist. Kerrville is one of the top ones out there of anybody who makes the circuit. So Stephanie, welcome to the show.

Stephanie Sammons (01:46): Thank you, John. I'm so excited to be here. It's been a long time.

John Jantsch (01:51): Well, it has been a long time. And that's a part of my first question. Long time listeners wonder why am I having a musician on a marketing show? You and I actually met in a marketing context, I don't know, 15 years ago or so. Talk a little bit about your journey to, I just mentioned you recently released a full length album, but talk a little bit about your journey to that point.

Stephanie Sammons (02:15): Yeah, I mean, most of my career I've been a financial, I'm a certified financial planner, worked for big firms, left the big corporate thing, got into marketing, I worked, did some marketing services for financial advisors, built websites, all that good stuff. Took a sabbatical from that career and then got back in it started my own firm, like you said, in 2017. So that's my core career. That's how I make my living. And I've always had this burning passion to do music. And I've dabbled in songwriting for probably, I don't know, 20 years and guitar playing, being a self-taught guitar player. And I started going to these workshops in Nashville starting in 2016. And I got to work with these incredible Grammy nominated artists. One of them is a Grammy winner, and that's Emily sells from the Indigo Girls. But I learned so much about the art and craft of songwriting, and I just fell in love with it. I was like, oh, I've been writing songs, but they are terrible and this is really how you write a good song.

(03:36): So I've been to, I just asked the woman who puts these together, their smaller group workshops, I said, how many have I been to since 2016? And she said 26. So I just studied and studied and started really working hard on it, putting my day work down, my day job down, and then starting on songwriting and getting better and improving. And there was just a culmination of whispers that made me decide to about a year ago to go pro with it. And I had to overcome a lot of my own head noise and excuses and those kinds of things. But that's how I got here.

John Jantsch (04:18): So since I've already mentioned that we've known each other a long time, it probably is not an insult to say that was kind of a midlife change for you. So how alluded to the idea of that was a big change I felt People talk about all the time, imposter syndrome and those kinds of things. How did you summon the courage? Is that the right word to say, I'm going to go do this thing that seems ludicrous?

Stephanie Sammons (04:44): Yeah, I think courage is the right word. My first excuse was, you're too darn old. What are you thinking? I'm too old to do this. I have another business where I serve clients day in and day out. What are my clients going to think that I'm running off to Nashville and leaving them in the dust? So I had that to overcome that, which was more in my head. And then I think the third thing was it's going to be so much hard work because it's like if you want to be a good golfer, you can't just go out and start playing 18 holes. You've got to hit the driving range. You've got to practice your putting. It's an actively, it's an active sport that you have to engage in and practice and work at it. And this songwriting thing and performing is an additional layer.

John Jantsch (05:36): Yeah, I was going to say, I've always really respect songwriters who are also great performers because it's two completely different businesses.

Stephanie Sammons (05:45): It is. And I'm introverted. And so that took a different level of courage to get to. So I don't know. I mean, I think over time it's just been part of my journey to build and build on the skill sets that are required. And when I reached out to the producer that I really wanted to work with and I had enough songs to make an album when she said yes, that pretty much launched me down the road. I'm like, okay, that is a sign I'm doing this.

John Jantsch (06:20): Okay. And you don't have to get into specific numbers, but just in practice, how does, okay, you found a producer who said yes, you had the songs, they needed to be musicians, there needed to be studio time, there needed to be the production. How does all that get funded

Stephanie Sammons (06:37): By yours truly?

John Jantsch (06:39): Yeah.

Stephanie Sammons (06:40): I mean, that's the beauty of, I mean, I'm fortunate that I'm in the position where I can self-fund this passion career. I'm trying not to call it a passion. Songwriters have a problem. The songwriting community has a problem with that if you're not. But now everybody

John Jantsch (07:02): Has different job because anybody can pick up a pen and say, here are the three chords, but is that songwriters?

Stephanie Sammons (07:08): And so it really is another profession altogether. But I saved for it, and I knew it was going to be expensive, and it is expensive, and you don't get a return on your investment, very little return financially. It's more the experience that matters to me. And it's okay if I'm in the red forever, but that's what it takes. And everybody does it differently. Some of these songwriters out there where this is their core career, they will start a Kickstarter and get funding that way. So anyway,

John Jantsch (07:50): But the money's really in the t-shirts, right?

Stephanie Sammons (07:53): Yeah. The money is in the merchandise.

John Jantsch (07:56): I

Stephanie Sammons (07:56): Never thought that would be, but

John Jantsch (07:58): It's interesting you think of how that model has changed the music industry. You would tour to sell albums, and now the tour is where the money is, right? I mean, it's really, I'm sure there definitely Taylor Swift making a lot of money on Spotify, but a lot of folks, it's really changed the whole, it's almost become more entrepreneurial, that ability to reach your fans directly to hustle and get gigs and do things. I mean, it's really become a lot more entrepreneurial, hasn't it?

Stephanie Sammons (08:28): You are correct, and you wear all the hats. You've got to be active. Instagram is a pretty strong community of singer songwriters, and we all support each other. But if you're not active there, that's really helped the most is just engaging with my community of peers and everybody. We all have different fans, and that's kind of how you do it, but you wear every one of the hats. And at my age also and with my lifestyle, I'm not going to go get a van and tour the country, but I get to kind of build my own adventure. I'm doing selective festivals and just things that I want to do. I'm putting my name in the hat to try and get on some of those bills to be able to play different festivals and things.

John Jantsch (09:23): It's my pleasure to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. Our friends at ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign helps small teams power big businesses with the must have platform for intelligent marketing automation. We've been using ActiveCampaign for years here at Duct Tape Marketing to power our subscription forms, email newsletters and sales funnel drip campaigns. ActiveCampaign is that rare platform that's affordable, easy to use, and capable of handling even the most complex marketing automation needs. And they make it easy to switch. They provide every new customer with one-on-one personal training and free migrations from your current marketing automation or email marketing provider. You can try Active Campaign for free for 14 days and there's no credit card required. Just visit activecampaign.com/duct tape. That's right. Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Listeners who sign up via that link will also receive 15% off an annual plan. That's activecampaign.com/duct tape. Now, this offer is limited to new active campaign customers only. So what are you waiting for? Fuel your growth, boost revenue and save precious time by upgrading to active campaign today.

John Jantsch (10:36): Well, Curville is probably one you attended a time or two, right? I would think given where it's located, I have an idea. Why don't we listen to a bit of a song?

Stephanie Sammons (10:45): Great.

John Jantsch (10:46): That was from Time and Evolution, and it's called Incense and Lost, and I have to call you out on this. Sold my Soul for a diamond ring. Now, there's a lot of hope in that lyric, isn't there?

Stephanie Sammons (10:58): Yes.

John Jantsch (10:59): So maybe talk us through, sorry, I stole your thunder there, but talk us through what that song's about, what the influence of that song.

Stephanie Sammons (11:07): Yeah, that song came about because I shot a bird when I was 10 years old. My granddaddy gave me a BB gun, and me and my sister were just walking around their land going, what do we do with this? What could we do? And I shot a bird and I ran over to that bird and I literally watched it die in front of me. And I went from being ecstatic that I hid it to completely heartbroken that I killed the bird. And so that song is about, that experience was losing your innocence of time when I lost my innocence. And so that song has several vignettes describe stories of losing your innocence over time. And that was one of them that you mentioned. Yeah, you've run off and with the person you think is going to be the person the rest of your life. And you leave home and you don't listen to your mom and dad, and it ends up being a disaster and you come back home hanging your head and traded your soul for diamond ring. It wasn't the right person.

John Jantsch (12:14): So I sometimes wonder people laugh about that. I mean, you can't write the blues unless you've just had a really hard life. And so how much of that really comes in, plays the part in songwriting? I mean, I sometimes laugh because I play around with writing songs too. But I mean, I feel sometimes the hardest choice I've had to make when I was growing up was like if I wanted chunky peanut butter or smoothie peanut butter, I just have nothing to write about sometimes.

Stephanie Sammons (12:43): I bet you

John Jantsch (12:44): Do. I'm sure it's not, I'm sure it's not true. But I wonder how much, not necessarily pain, but just life experience and how you experience life is a key part of songwriting.

Stephanie Sammons (12:54): Yeah, I mean, I would say that I am an empath and I'm always thinking about other people's suffering, other people's experiences. Why does some people have such a tough lot in life and others don't? And things like this just plague me and people who struggle in my family. And so instead of addressing these things or sometimes I get confronted by various folks in my family, for example, and it ends up coming out in a song. I mean, they're just things that are in my mind that I store up that I really think a lot about. And those are the things that come out through songwriting. It's really interesting. That's how I have the conversation.

John Jantsch (13:44): Yeah. Do you find yourself, I often, maybe this is romanticizing the whole process a bit, but you're sitting in a coffee shop and you hear two people talking over there. That's like an idea for a song, what they're talking about.

Stephanie Sammons (13:58): Everything is fo for a new song. It really and truly is. And so are things and things that you see. I've seen a lone coyote roaming around out here. It's not so much anymore because it's warmer, and I live in Dallas, but I'm like, I'm going to write a song about that lone coyote. But I have to figure out what is the metaphor, what's the coyote of metaphor for what's it going to be about? And I keep ideas on my phone, just a running list, and then I marry those two things like, ah, I've got it. I'm working on a song called Marathon, and it's about somebody who's just had a really hard life and they keep getting up and keep getting up. So I try to find a metaphor that works for the song in general. An image.

John Jantsch (14:47): You mentioned you went to a lot of these workshops, and I'm sure you met folks that you would call mentors. Are there any mentors, musical influences that are important to you?

Stephanie Sammons (14:57): Oh yeah. I grew up listening to the Eagles and a lot of Boston Classic journey, classic rock stuff. And then later in life, I love cold play. I love The Indigo Girls. They were a big influence. Just the gals playing acoustic guitars. I was like, I want to do that.

John Jantsch (15:22): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm trying to think of the seventies. You had Joni, you had, I dunno. Did Stevie Thanks Guitar sound. Thanks Taylor. I was thinking women though. So last question. How is balancing music and your advisory firm going

Stephanie Sammons (15:38): Man, to some extent, it's definitely two different sides of the brain, but there's a lot of overlap. Financial planning is kind of formulaic, making the numbers work to meet the goals. And writing a song, you only have so much time. Every word counts. You've got to have a rhyming scheme, you've got to have a melody and a rhythm. And so I find similarities there. And then my financial firm is really, it's a relationship business like anything else, like any other business. And I'm mostly helping people make good decisions. That's what the job is. And so the way I balance them is I can't do them both in one day. I've got my work days for my financial firm, then I'm going to rehearse all day music days, or I'm going to work on songwriting all day. One day. I have to just get in the space for each role that I'm practicing.

John Jantsch (16:46): Are you familiar with Rick Rubin's recent

Stephanie Sammons (16:49): Work? Oh, I

John Jantsch (16:50): Love it. So one of the things that he talks about repeatedly in there is that you don't switch the writing on, it hits you when it hits you. Do you find that a challenge? A little bit because it's like, I have their song today. It's like,

Stephanie Sammons (17:05): Yeah, if I don't create space for that, it doesn't happen. And so that can be, especially trying to juggle both of these careers. So I do things like journaling and I try to walk a couple of miles every day, and that's the way that I can create space or being in the car is always a good place to capture something on my phone. So I've always got my phone nearby to record a melody. I always have melodies in my head, so I'll record a melody and just sing it into my phone or put words in there and phrases for ideas. So it is kind of always on in the back of my mind, that motor is running.

John Jantsch (17:46): You have one of these little notebooks with all these little snippets in it that you someday will tie into something or go

Stephanie Sammons (17:52): Back to. Right. I have a bunch of those.

John Jantsch (17:53): Do you find sometimes that, I wonder if your client base and your financial firm is a little bit influenced by the empath artist sort of makeup that is you. Are you attracting folks that are opposite of that? Or are you attracting folks that your music is actually, to them is a real side benefit?

Stephanie Sammons (18:12): They're all very supportive of my music, which has been refreshing. In fact, some of them have come out to a show that I did here in Dallas, which was shocking. I didn't expect that. I have different types of clients, though. Some are real stoic and not emotional at all. And then others are just, they need nurturing and handholding and they're just different. They're different people. And I don't know what the common thread is. That's a really great question. I'm going to think about that.

John Jantsch (18:44): Yeah, it's just an observation. Well, Stephanie, it was awesome catching up with you, spending a few moments on the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Where can people find out, I guess if they need a financial advisor, would be one avenue of connecting you, but also find out more about your music and pick up time and evolution?

Stephanie Sammons (19:02): My website is, the best website is stephaniesammons.com is just my name. And I do have a website for my, it's my wealth management firm. It's called sammonswealth.com, but my music is everywhere you listen, apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, if anybody still listens there, I know a lot of people do our age, but I also have vinyl and CDs and all that good stuff.

John Jantsch (19:29): That's all at stephaniesammons.com? Yes. Yeah. Awesome. Well, again, it was great catching up with you and hopefully we'll run into you someday soon. Come to Colorado and play, and I can see you on the road.



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Tuesday, July 9, 2024

Gain Freedom From the Fear of the Future: How to Thrive in an Uncertain World

Gain Freedom From the Fear of the Future: How to Thrive in an Uncertain World written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast with John Jantsch

 

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Frederik Pferdt, the first Chief Innovation Evangelist at Google and a renowned expert on innovation and creativity.  

Frederik Pferdt helped shape one of the most fabled creative cultures in the world. He founded Google’s Innovation Lab, where he trained tens of thousands of Googlers to develop and experiment with cutting-edge ideas and taught ground-breaking classes on innovation and creativity at Stanford University for more than a decade.

He has also worked with dozens of international government agencies, organizations, and businesses ranging from the United Nations to NASA to the NBA. His work has been highlighted in Fast Company, Harvard Business Manager, Der Spiegel, and BBC news, among many other media outlets.

Dr. Pferdt shares his insights on how not just optimism but radical optimism can transform our relationship with the future, helping us create a world we want to live in.

Key Takeaways

The key to thriving in an uncertain world lies in embracing radical optimism. He explains that radical optimism is about more than just seeing the glass as half full; it’s about looking for ways to fill the glass even further. By shifting our perspective (state of mind) to focus on possibilities and opportunities, we can transform challenges into chances for growth.

Dr. Pferdt emphasizes the importance of changing our mindset to a “mind state” – a fluid, adaptable approach to thinking that can be adjusted based on immediate circumstances. This helps individuals become more resilient and proactive in the face of change, rather than being overwhelmed by it.

He also highlights the role of compulsive curiosity in driving business innovation and personal growth. By continuously questioning and seeking to learn more about the world around us, we can stay ahead of changes and better prepare for the future. This curiosity, paired with unreserved openness to new ideas and experiences, can lead to unexpected and rewarding opportunities.

In this episode, Dr. Pferdt offers practical advice on how to cultivate radical optimism and develop a future-ready mindset. He shares personal stories and examples from his work at Google and Stanford University, illustrating how these concepts can be applied in real-world scenarios to achieve remarkable results.

Dr. Pferdt’s insights provide valuable guidance for anyone looking to gain freedom from the fear of the future and thrive in an ever-changing world. By adopting  a proactive approach to the future, we can create a future we desire, rather than waiting passively for it to unfold.

 

Questions I ask Frederik Pferdt:

[02:25] Would you say Ning was ahead of its time?

[03:50] Would you say a platform like Facebook then was another advancement of Ning or completely derivative?

[07:53] How would you define community?

[14:03] How important is having a clear and compelling purpose in designing your community?

[17:13] How do you manage having so many feature requests?

[21:18] Do you have an interesting case study of how someone achieved great financial success starting with a community?

[24:44] Is there someplace you want to invite people to learn more about Mighty and connect with you?

 

 

More About Frederik Pferdt:

    • Connect with Frederik Pferdt on LinkedIn

 

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn

 

This episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast is brought to you by ActiveCampaign

Try ActiveCampaign free for 14 days with our special offer. Exclusive to new customers—upgrade and grow your business with ActiveCampaign today!

 

 

Speaker 1 (00:00): I was like, I found it. I found it. This is what I've been looking for. I can honestly say it has genuinely changed the way I run my business. It's changed the results that I'm seeing. It's changed my engagement with clients, it's changed my engagement with, it's the best investment I ever made.

John Jantsch (00:14): What you just heard was a testimonial from a recent graduate of the Duct Tape Marketing certification intensive program for fractional CMOs marketing agencies and consultants just like them. You could choose our system to move from vendor to trusted advisor, attract only ideal clients, and confidently present your strategies to build monthly recurring revenue. Visit DTM world slash scale to book your free advisory call and learn more. It's time to transform your approach. Book your call today, DTM World slash scale.

(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Dr. Frederik Pferdt. He is the first chief innovation that helped shape one of the most fabled creative cultures in the world. He founded Google's innovation lab where he trained tens of thousands of Googlers to develop and experiment with cutting edge ideas and taught groundbreaking classes on innovation and experiment with cutting edge ideas for more than a decade at Stanford University. He's also the author of a book we're going to talk about today. What's next is now How to Live Future Ready. So Dr. Fard, welcome to the show.

Frederik Pferdt (01:45): Thank you, John for having me.

John Jantsch (01:47): It's a pleasure. So let's maybe kind set a baseline. When a lot of people hear about the future, it seems like people are either excited or they dread it. I don't think that you're going to tell people they should dread the future. So how do you get people to think appropriately about what the future means?

Frederik Pferdt (02:06): Yes, that's a great question. And so I really want to help people to change their relationship with the future. As you just described, we feel sometimes anxious, uncertain about the future, but we also feel excited from time to time about the future. And we all know we live in that world where change is accelerating and it's happening constantly and this can feel overwhelming for a lot of people. And so the challenge that we all face, I think, is that our minds are looking for certainty. And if we don't find that certainty, we feel anxiety. So we spend a lot of time worrying about the future because our minds crave that certainty and really our brains are wired to make this feel uncomfortable for me, really about helping people to not think about the future and do predictions, but rather changing their relationship with their own future and saying like, Hey, what future do I want to create? Instead of asking what will the future bring? And I think that's something that I'm personally very excited about because that changed my relationship with my future. And so taking control of what's happening next is something very important. I want to help people to do that.

John Jantsch (03:34): So that idea of that's obviously how to live, future ready, how to live the future you create, I think is obviously a big premise of the book. How do you get people past this idea of creating something that is unknown because it's five, 10 years from now, entire things that we took for granted will no longer exist. So how do you get that kind of mindset?

Frederik Pferdt (04:00): Exactly. And you are mentioning an important point, which is mostly we talk about these futures that are way out on the horizon. It's like five years, 10 years, or even like 30 years. That's what we usually talk about. And for me, I want to bring the future close, which means I want to bring it so close that every choice you make in this moment determines what's going to happen next. And so you mentioned something that I feel we also need to discuss, which is that notion of a mindset. That word mindset is just around everywhere we have, even in school, it's taught, which is very important, having a specific mindset. But also we use it in organizations where we talk about we need to have an organizational mindset, for example, or we talk about it even with products, you can now buy products that help you to change your mindset might be like a drink for example, or certain pills and so forth.

(05:10): And I think we need to change that probably because we have mindsets all around. And Carol Dweck did incredible important work around that. But I found that it's a term that is also overused. And even if you're typing something into a document or use chat GPT or use Google, whatever it is, it always defaults back to mindset. And for me, the concept of a mindset refers to a stable, long-term collection of beliefs and values and attitudes that we carry with us. And it's deeply ingrained and often resistant to change having been formed and solidified over years of experiences teaching. So it's really hard for us to change a mindset. And so what I want to do is I want to change that notion towards a mind state. And for me, a mind state is something different. It's fluid, it changes based on the immediate situation.

(06:14): It really reflects our real time emotional and mental responses, and it can significantly influence our decisions and actions. And for me, that mind state is our moment to moment perspective really that is influenced by our thoughts and emotions. And that really guides how we interact with the world. And I think for me, if we focus on the mind state, it helps us to actually also take control and how we perceive a situation and how we experience the present moment. And that is really something that is very powerful and I use in the book. And so by focusing on your mindset state, really you can actively shape how you experience and respond to everyday situations and thereby constructing the future you desire. And that's the whole again, premise of what I want people to do.

John Jantsch (07:07): And I want to get into the dimensions further of that mind state a little bit, but can you give me an example of how somebody, you started to talk about traditional mindset as opposed to this future ready mind state. Do you have examples of how somebody can actually make that shift from one to the other?

Frederik Pferdt (07:28): Yes. So when we talk about one of the dimensions, for example, radical optimism that I put out there, we usually say either you are an optimist or a pessimist. That's the categories we usually use in our everyday language. And for me, it's not the usual way of looking at a glass half full or half empty type of person. For me, being a radically optimistic person is somebody who looks at the possibilities and opportunities that you can fill your glass even further. And so a radical, optimistic person transforms really challenges into opportunities and every situation into a chance for something exceptional. And by shifting that view, we find potential in everything. Uncovering those hidden possibilities. And this perspective really encourages us to aim for what I call better, making really every moment an opportunity for growth. I can share an example of how that might look like.

(08:36): So if I look at my desk and I see like, oh, I have a very clever desk, a regular optimistic person might say, Hey, fantastic, at least I have a desk to work at, right? That's what they usually would say. But for me, a radically optimistic view is what's better is that I can work on multiple interesting projects simultaneously reflecting my diverse interests and skills. So that's a more radically view of a cluttered desk. Or you might say, I'm here in a geodesic dome and I have some noises outside where some woodwork is being conducted at the moment, which is great. Or you look outside your window, right, John, and you say, oh, I have a noisy busy street outside your window. So an optimist would already say, at least I live in a lively area. A radically optimistic person actually frames that as what's better is that I'm part of a vibrant and alive community that offers constant inspiration and connection. So you see that in that language. It's not just looking for what's the positive about that, but what's the better that I can find here in these situations? And that's something you can train yourself in. That's something you can practice and work on. And I think that's something very powerful I want to help people to do.

John Jantsch (10:00): It's my pleasure to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast. Our friends at ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign helps small teams power big businesses with a must have platform for intelligent marketing automation. We've been using ActiveCampaign for years here at Duct Tape Marketing to power our subscription forms, email newsletters and sales funnel drip campaigns. ActiveCampaign is that rare platform that's affordable, easy to use, and capable of handling even the most complex marketing automation needs. And they make it easy to switch. They provide every new customer with one-on-one personal training and free migrations from your current marketing automation or email marketing provider. You can try Active Campaign for free for 14 days and there's no credit card required. Just visit activecampaign.com/duct tape. That's right. Duct Tape Marketing podcast. Listeners who sign up via that link will also receive 15% off an annual plan. That's activecampaign.com/duct tape. Now, this offer is limited to new active campaign customers only.

(11:06): So what are you waiting for? Fuel your growth, boost revenue and save precious time by upgrading to active campaign today. To what extent, and I know all of what we're talking about is learned, so to what extent is this a generational thing? So I look at a 10-year-old now and they don't think, oh, the future is something I have to learn. They think this is what I am. Some video game comes along, they don't think, how do I learn it? It's like, no, I am it. Whereas somebody like me who might say, for AI for example, this is something now I want to learn, but it's something that I need to actually figure out or learn. So to what extent are those two ends of the age spectrum play a role in the ability to learn these behaviors?

Frederik Pferdt (11:56): Yes. So I'm a big fan of our next generation. I have to say I am just always tremendously in awe when I see the young generation taking control of their future. They're going on the streets and telling everyone that we need to do something about climate change. And they're really proactive in all of those things and how they use AI and new technology is something very powerful because they not just see the downsides, but they start experimenting and trying things out and see how that could work for them or what's something we need to refine and improve. But there's one interesting thing that when we grow up is somehow changing, and that's curiosity. I have one of the dimensions of a future ready mindset is what I say. Compulsive curiosity and curiosity really drives us to explore and understand our world better, which is really crucial in our rapidly changing environment.

(13:00): So we are all born with that curiosity and it's firing in all cylinders. When we're children, you probably remember John like crawling around on the floor, you probably not but your parents when you crawl around the floor and you're trying to put everything in your mouth and you look at everything and you taste everything, and you really explore with all of your senses, the world, every moment. And I think that's very powerful, that curiosity, because you start to learn a lot, but our natural curiosity goes actually dormant over time. And so the good news is that we can reawaken it by continuously questioning and seeking to learn more about everything around us. And I think that's probably one of the last frontiers of, for us humans probably is asking better questions. As you mentioned, AI and technology gives us a lot of good answers at the moment. So I think for us, it's really about practicing the art of framing good questions and trying to just have that compulsive curiosity help us to discover. And so in my book, I give a couple of examples on how you can actually train yourself into asking better questions and really bring that curiosity back to everything you're doing.

John Jantsch (14:14): Yeah, I wonder if there are people that have these traits more in abundance or naturally or socially, they got those traits. I always tell people, and you talk about this idea of bringing your superpower to things. I feel like curiosity has always been, I started my business 30 years ago. We didn't have the internet and we've still been able to evolve and serve our clients. And I really think that curiosity, I'm always want to know how the new thing works, and I think that has served me abundantly over the years, but there certainly are some people that's actually hard for them. So my question in this is, are there people that you find that naturally possess some of these traits or dimensions?

Frederik Pferdt (14:56): We all do to a certain degree. So again, I've worked with tens of thousands of Googlers over my 12 and a half years at the company, and I'm also involved with students at Stanford, and I work with incredibly talented people all around the world. And I find that these dimensions of that future ready mindset that I talk about can be really found in every human being because they're deeply human qualities that we have. What I also found is that not all of us are using them to a certain degree. So what I argue for is that we need to dial those things up. We need to be more curious, we need to be more open, we need to experiment more, show more empathy. And if we do that, again, even using optimism in a radical way, if we all do that more, I think we can discover more opportunities in our future. That's something very powerful, I think, to have to answer your question briefly. Yes, we all have those, but we can probably use those even more. And I'm going to show people how they actually can leverage that.

John Jantsch (16:10): So to that listener that's thinking, maybe they're reading the news headlines today and is thinking, especially in the United States, there's a lot of talk about this divisiveness that's going on and actually closed, becoming more closed. This is my tribe, this is your tribe, as opposed to what you call unreserved openness. So how do we get that turned around?

Frederik Pferdt (16:35): Yes. First, I recommend not following or not watching the news like minute by minute. We all have that negativity bias built in ourselves, and the news are really taking advantage of that. So the negative news, we want to read the first and watch immediately and so forth. But I would recommend not just consuming news, news, news all the time because it really draws you towards a conclusion where you might believe that the future is controlled by something else or someone else.

(17:11): And again, I said that in the beginning that we shouldn't ask the question, what will the future bring? Because that's passive, that's waiting for the future to unfold, and it's going to be controlled by someone else. We should ask ourselves, what future do I want to create, which is a proactive approach. And using openness, as you described, is something very powerful because unreserved openness is about really embracing change and the unknown with confidence and curiosity. So it means really being open to new ideas and experiences and even other ways of thinking, which can lead to unexpected and even rewarding opportunities. And so imagine you are in a long corridor lined with numerous doors. So that corridor is just filled with these doors, and each door represents an opportunity or new experience. So I would argue that someone with unserved openness doesn't just peak cautiously through a slightly opened door and worried what might be on the other side.

(18:17): But instead, they approach each door, I would say, with that eagerness and ready to fling it open without hesitation. And so they're not deterred by the uncertainty what lies behind the door. Rather they're motivated to really see the potential for new possibilities and learning that's behind the door. So every door would be wide open and you open that door and you walk straight through it because there's always something interesting and new waiting behind that door. And I think that's what we need to bring as an attitude towards everything instead of just being cautiously, even letting those doors being closed.

John Jantsch (18:55): So while I agree wholeheartedly with the dimensions and the premise, I could see a lot of people, this isn't not an overnight project. I mean, this is changing attitudes, this is changing beliefs, this is changing habits. So what would be your advice to somebody who says, I want to take this on, but I've got work to do?

Frederik Pferdt (19:15): Yes. And again, I fully agree, and that's why the subtitle is How to Live Future Ready. It's a Lifestyle. But I also would say it's not that hard to change because we are talking about a mind state, which is really about the perspective you have in any given moment that determines how you experience the present. And that perspective. We can change, we have control over it. If in one situation we show a little bit more openness or optimism or even empathy, that's a choice we can make. And I argue that leads always to a better opportunity. It leads to possibilities. And so it's not that hard to change. And I give people three things. The first one is I give some personal stories and experience I had over the years that could be potentially helpful. The other thing that I offer is I have about 14 people that I've personally trained and worked with at Google, just remarkable people.

(20:16): And so they share their own stories and how they changed their perspectives, which led to a remarkable future for themselves as human beings. And then I offer some practices that everybody can try out to see like, Hey, what does that practice help me to do? And how can I use that to shift my perspective? And I think as soon as you either read some of my experiences, you read some of the stories, or you practice some of that, I think you can start slowly to see opportunities for your future, and then again, find even some joy in crafting your own future and choosing your own future. And I think that's something very exciting to do.

John Jantsch (20:58): Dr. Fayette, I appreciate you stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. Is there somewhere that you would invite people to connect with you or find out more about your work?

Frederik Pferdt (21:07): Yeah, everywhere. Reach out, message me, or let's have a conversation. And I really hope that we all take control of our own futures. I hope that we can now see opportunities in the future as well, so that we can craft a future that is desirable and that we all want to live in.

John Jantsch (21:29): Again, I appreciate you taking a moment, and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.



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