Best Collection Agency Services

Businesses should be focused on serving their clients, not on tracking them down for missed payments. Collection agency services solve this problem by recovering your money and strengthening your cash flow. Agencies do this by identifying your debtors and reaching out to them in a targeted way. If you’re wondering which collection agency could be best for you, keep reading.

The Top 6 Best Collection Agency Services

1. Rocket Receivables – Best for Small Businesses in Highly Regulated Industries
2. Prestige Services – Best for Commercial Accounts
3. Summit Account Resolution – Best for Medical, Dental, and Employee Reimbursement
4. Atradius Collections – Best for Global B2B Debt Collection
5. IC System – Best for Landlords, Government Agencies, and Financial Institutions
6. The Kaplan Group – Best for Large Claims

Let’s take a deeper dive into the best collection agencies so you can determine which is right for your business. 

#1 – Rocket Receivables — Best For Small Businesses in Highly  Regulated Industries

Visit Rocket Receivables

• Stage One clients receive 100% of collections
• Rocket Booster enhances collection reminders
• Stage Two clients only pay when debt is collected
• Covers B2C and B2B accounts

Try it today

Rocket Receivables is the solution for smaller businesses that are having trouble collecting and that are concerned about breaking debt collection regulations. The service helps small to midsize businesses in industries like healthcare, retail, contracted services, real estate, professional services, education, and more.  

The service is straightforward and is broken down into two stages. Stage One is for accounts that are less than 120 days past due, and it has up-front pricing with a fixed fee. During Stage One, the debtor is reminded once from first-party outreach and is sent three additional third-party reminders. Rocket Booster can be added to include phone call reminders. 

If accounts are over 120 days past due and are harder to collect, businesses usually go with Stage Two. Businesses pay a percentage of the amount of debt collected with Stage Two, and they are not required to pay if nothing is collected. Stage Two involves legal actions, negotiations, phone calls, and written demands. 

If the debt isn’t collected through Stage One, accounts are automatically moved to Stage Two. Stage One comes with deliverables like debt validation, an online portal, postage envelopes, thank you letters, and database screening. Stage Two includes free bankruptcy screening, the ability to adjust negotiation amounts, asset investigations, and B2C and B2B accounts.

Stage One services cost $21.95 per account with 10 accounts, $17.95 per account with 25 accounts, and $14.95 per account with 50 accounts. If you have over 100 accounts, contact Rocket Receivables for more information. 

Stage Two contingency fees are set at 50% of collections received. This is on the higher end of typical contingency fees, and it is one disadvantage of using Rocket Receivables’ Stage Two debt collection service.

#2 – Prestige Services — Best For Commercial Accounts

Visit Prestige Services

• Lower rates than most agencies
• Collections within 10 days are free
• Negotiable rates for large accounts
• Attorney-forwarding for tough collections

Try it today

Prestige Services is the best collection agency for commercial accounts. It covers all U.S. states, Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, Canada, and Mexico. It’s been in business for over two decades, its employees have over 50 years of combined experience, and it has won multiple accredited business awards. 

Prestige Services has one of the best collection ratios in the U.S., and it partners with Commercial Law League of America (CLLA) attorneys if it fails to collect. To ensure the best chance of success, it works with attorneys in a debtor’s geographical area.

Prestige’s services are free if collection is achieved within 10 days of sign-up as long as it is informed within the 10-day period. Prestige does not charge any fees if no debt is collected, and it has 5 to 10 percent lower average rates than most collection agencies. 

Prestige clients can access their accounts online at any time. They can check claim status, debt collection notes, and keep accounts organized. The service also includes pre-collection services, accounts receivable outsourcing, professional skip-tracing, free final notice forms, and bank account searching. 

Prestige requires a minimum claim of $200. Rates of claims for $200 to $3,000 are set at 25 percent. Claims for over $3,000 to $20,000 have rates at 22 percent. Rates are negotiable for claims over $20,000. Claims forwarded to attorneys typically have 35 to 40 percent contingency rates. 

#3 – Summit Account Resolution — Best For Medical, Dental, and Employee Reimbursement

Visit Summit A.R.

• 0.02% customer complaint rate
• No claim minimums or quotas
• A+ rating from Better Business Bureau
• Recovery rates double U.S. average

Try it today

Summit Account Resolution has the best solutions for medical, dental, and employee reimbursement collections. It also helps with common B2C and B2B accounts. The company prides itself on being more personal, and it doesn’t use threats, robo-calls, or aggressive strategies. It has an excellent compliance record and an A+ rating by the Better Business Bureau. 

Summit’s medical collection service aims to gather debt from patients without hurting its clients’ reputations. The collection service has received a 0.02% patient complaint rate, resolved 13,700 accounts in the past year, and collected $140 million for clients as of writing. Its tactics are fully compliant with the HIPAA, and its recovery rates are double the U.S. average. 

Dentists can hire Summit to handle pre-collection services and collect patient debt. Summit understands that running a dental practice comes with high costs and the need for cash flow. It uses its “Preserve Human Dignity” philosophy to represent practices and retrieve payments in a professional way. Summit can help small practices or multi-location operations. 

Summit’s employee reimbursement solutions help recover debt from things like overpaid salaries, commission recalls, unauthorized expenses, early termination relocation expenses, uniform fees, unauthorized travel costs, and tuition reimbursements. It helps with current or former employees and with accidental or intentional debts. 

Summit is paid through contingency rates ranging from 7.5% to 50% depending on factors like balance amount, collection type, and debt age. Summit isn’t paid until debt is collected, and it doesn’t require claim minimums or quotas. 

#4 – Atradius Collections — Best For Global B2B Debt Collection

Visit Atradius Collections

• 79.4% global success rate
• Covers 96% of the world’s countries
• Network of international collection professionals
• Collections sent directly to your bank account

Request a quote

Atradius is a collection agency focusing on B2B debt in the U.S. and internationally. It has a network of professionals around the world that speak the same language as debtors and are familiar with local collecting regulations. As a result, Atradius covers 96% of countries across the globe, and its average global success rate is 79.3%.

If collection is unsuccessful, Atradius searches for other options like dispute registration, collection plan monitoring, and first-party collections. Once collections are retrieved, they are sent directly to the hiring company’s bank account no matter what currency was used to pay it. 

This service monitors debt and eliminates the need for clients to track it across different languages, jurisdictions, and time zones. Atradius also provides accounts receivable outsourcing, insolvency services, legal collections, standby servicing, and invoice checking. 

Atradius offers upfront pricing after requesting a quote, and payment is dependent upon successful collection. Simply enter your debtor’s name and country, your company’s name and country, and debt details on the Atradius website for a free quote. Invoices can be uploaded, and the entire process can be tracked online. 

#5 – IC System — Best For Landlords, Government Agencies, and Financial Institutions

Visit IC System

• 80+ years of industry experience
• Credit monitoring predicts ability to pay
• Helps landlords collect damage payments
• Flat fee and contingency-based options

Try it today

IC System is a collection agency that serves a variety of different industries, and it’s the best choice for rent recovery, government collections, and financial institution collections. The agency has over 80 years of experience, and it specializes in U.S. collections only. Like Summit, it emphasizes the importance of consumer-friendly and ethical debt collection. 

Late rent is a common issue with landlords leasing out properties. To help them solve this, IC System collects rent from tenants of apartment units, rental properties, mobile homes, and more. It can be used to collect debt when damage to a unit exceeds the security deposit amount. It also helps with credit monitoring, and it automatically sends debts. 

IC System is authorized to provide government debt collection services on the federal level through its General Services Administration (GSA) Professional Services Schedule Contract. The service maximizes revenue by segmenting accounts, takes note of the ability to pay through late-state credit monitoring, and re-engages inactive accounts through clean-up strategies. 

Financial institutions are constantly lending money, and many require collection services. IC System helps recover debt from actions like loans given, credit cards issued, and mortgages lent. It helps financial institutions like banks, accounting firms, and credit unions recover debt quickly using its customer-friendly and compliant approach. 

IC System offers two plans called Recovery Plus and Premier Collect. Recovery Plus is a two-stage approach in which clients pay a fixed fee during the first phase, and they pay a low contingency fee during the second phase. Premier Collect is a more comprehensive service and is contingency-based. For more information on pricing, reach out to IC System through its website.

#6 – The Kaplan Group — Best For Large Claims

Visit The Kaplan Group

• Debt collectors average over 10 years experience
• 85% success rate on large viable claims
• Collaborative and transparent collection strategies
• Competitive contingency fees

Request a free quote

The Kaplan Group is a collection agency specializing in large claims. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau, this agency is a member of the International Association of Commercial Collectors, a group that under 5% of collection agencies are a part of. It specializes in large commercial claims, but it can help with businesses of any size. 

Kaplan’s three-step system has led to an 85% success rate on large viable claims. Step One consists of a prospect and a Kaplan agent meeting over the phone to discuss the case and whether it’s a good fit. If it is, a debt collector averaging more than 10 years of experience is assigned to personally manage the client’s case. 

Step Two involves research of the debtor in the case. The agent researches the non-paying company and pinpoints who the best person is to reach out to for collection. Kaplan prides itself on understanding how the money-controllers within a company work, and how contracts like sales orders, invoices, price discounts, shipping charges, and sales tax laws work.

During Step Three, the client and the assigned Kaplan agent devise a plan for recovering the debt. Kaplan knows how to handle excuses and objections, and it uses proven strategies to navigate them. Before executing the plan, agents go over the entire strategy with their clients to ensure transparency. 

The Kaplan Group charges contingency-based rates for using its service, and clients do not pay until money is recovered. A client’s first claim must be more than $10,000. Claims over $500,000 have a 10% fee. $50,000 to $500,000 claims have a 15% fee. $5,000 to $50,000 claims have a 20% fee, and $1,000 to $5,000 claims have a 25% fee. 

If your debtor is located outside the U.S., there is a 30% fee. There are 50% fees for claims under $1,000, but claims this small are only available to long-term clients. 

How to Find The Best Collection Agency Service For You

When researching a collection agency, pay attention to how it charges its clients, how it conducts business, what its success rate or experience is, and what it focuses on.

Fee Structure

The fee structure is something that you must factor in before choosing a collection agency service. The two main types of fees are fixed fees and contingency fees. Clients pay fixed fees regardless of the result, and they pay contingency fees as a percentage of money recovered. Contingency fees typically range from 7% to 50%. 

One advantage of fixed-fee arrangements is that clients don’t need to pay more for large collection amounts, and they receive 100% of the money recovered. However, fixed-fee clients could end up paying a collection agency that doesn’t recover any money for them. Many of the easier-to-obtain claims involve fixed-fee structures. 

Contingency-fee arrangements are beneficial because clients don’t have to pay unless money is recovered. However, clients can end up handing over a large chunk of money depending on the collection amount. If you can find a suitable collection agency with lower contingency fees without sacrificing quality, this is ideal.

Ethicality

Everyone looking for a suitable collection agency should find one that is ethical. When a company hires a collection agency, it wants to obtain the debt from the end client without tarnishing its relationship with that client. 

If you choose an agency that harasses and threatens debtors, then the debtors probably won’t want to do business with you again. Unethical collection agencies hurt business reputations and are often less successful than ethical ones. 

You want to look for a collection agency that is customer-friendly and personable. Debtors should always be treated with dignity and respect. This will not only increase their chances of paying you back, but also make it more likely that they will do business with you again.

Success Rate and Experience

Always look for collection agency success rates, especially when they are charging a fixed fee. Solid collection success rates are above 75%. For contingency-fee payers, this is less important because they have nothing to lose except the time wasted on hiring the agency. 

If an agency’s success rate isn’t listed, look for experience details. Many agencies like to advertise the years they have been collecting debt or the amount of experience their debt collectors have. Experience is a huge bonus in this industry, so it’s something to keep in mind. 

Specialization

Finally, always factor in a collection agency’s specialization before choosing them. Many will work in niches like B2C, B2B, national, global, or industry-specific businesses. You may be required to pay higher fees with a specialized collection agency, but it might be worth it due to its experience.

Also, some agencies focus on larger claims and require a minimum amount to do business with them. Be sure to investigate an agency’s website before choosing it and call its support team if you still have questions. 

Summary

Hopefully, you now have a better idea of which collection agencies are the best. Let’s recap so you don’t forget. Small to midsize companies in highly regulated industries should look into Rocket Receivables. Prestige Services is best for commercial accounts, and Atradius’s global network is best for international B2B collections. 

For businesses looking for medical, dental, or employee reimbursement collections, consider an agency like Summit Account Resolution. IC System is best for government agencies, landlords, and financial institutions, and Kaplan is best for big claims.

Always choose an agency that is ethical and that either has a high success rate or over a decade of experience. It’s also important to account for fee structures when factoring in your budget, and make sure to choose one that specializes in handling similar situations to yours. 

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Weekend Favs February 26

Weekend Favs February 26 written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

My weekend blog post routine includes posting links to a handful of tools or great content I ran across during the week.

I don’t go into depth about the finds, but encourage you to check them out if they sound interesting. The photo in the post is a favorite for the week from an online source or one that I took out there on the road.

The theme for this week’s tools is: Time Savers

• Copy.AI – Say goodbye to writer’s block. This AI-powered tool generates premium copy and content ideas across multiple platforms
• Rebump– An automated extension for your email that follows up with your unanswered email recipients so you don’t have to
• Restream– Offers the ability to broadcast your live streams to multiple platforms at once, creating visibility to all of your audiences segments

These are my weekend favs, I would love to hear about some of yours – Tweet me @ducttape

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Why Publishing A Book Helps Build Your Credibility

Why Publishing A Book Helps Build Your Credibility written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Michael DeLon

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Michael DeLon. Michael is a Credibility Marketing Expert who helps business owners publish a book that positions them as an expert in their field. He’s also the author of On Marketing: The Definitive Guide for Small Business Owners.

Key Takeaway:

Building credibility as an expert in your field is an essential component to reaching new audiences and attracting new customers and clients. If you want to build your credibility, publishing a book is a way to do just that. In this episode, I talk with Michael DeLon about how publishing your own book helps you not only demonstrate your expertise but also differentiate yourself from your competition.

Questions I ask Michael DeLon:

• [1:16] What has your journey to becoming a credibility marketing expert looked like?
• [4:04] What is credibility marketing?
• [5:35] A lot of people are self-proclaimed experts, self-proclaimed thought leaders – so who gets to decide if you’re credible or an expert?
• [8:05] Is there something unique about the market or the way people buy today that makes credibility even more important?
• [12:34] What makes a book a significant tool or significant channel over and above something like just doing video on LinkedIn?
• [13:48] If you’ve got a decent idea, is there a formula to help people turn that into a book?
• [15:01] Are you starting to see that this is a tactic that can actually work for people that might have the mindset that no one would want to read a book by them?
• [16:03] Most authors and speakers have a book nowadays – but what are your thoughts on someone like a remodeling contractor that could write a book on ways to make your home suitable for your family? Wouldn’t that be a big differentiator?
•  [19:00] What’s your favorite book project that you’ve done, and what impact did it have on that person or business?
• [21:56] Where can people find out more about your programs and your latest coaching program?

More About Michael DeLon:

• Learn more about Michael’s programs – PaperbackExpert.com

More About The Duct Tape Marketing Consultant Network:

• Check it out here.

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Duct Tape Transcript

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John Jantsch (00:00): This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by the Salesman Podcast, hosted by Will Barron brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network. Look, if you work in sales, wanna learn how to sell or just peek at the latest sales news. Check out the sales podcast where host Will Barron helps sales professionals learn how to find buyers and in big business in effective and ethical ways. One of my favorite episodes lately, how to personalize your sales outreach at massive scale, who doesn't want to do that? Listen to the Salesman Podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

John Jantsch (00:46): Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Michael Delon. He's a credibility marketing expert who helps business owners publish a book that positions them as the expert in their field. He's also the author of a book on marketing. So, Michael, thanks for joining me.

Michael DeLon (01:06): Hey, you're welcome, John. I appreciate, uh, the opportunity to be here. It's gonna be a fun conversation.

John Jantsch (01:10): So before we get into exactly what a credibility marketing expert does, what, uh, gimme a little bit of history on your kind of your journey.

Michael DeLon (01:20): Sure. Yeah. I'll, I'll try to make it quick. Wow. Back in the nineties, back in 1990, my wife and I got married, I was in Christian radio selling Christian radio, right. Realized my business, my, my clients didn't wanna buy radio. They wanted to grow their business. So I decided instead of being really good at selling, I would learn about marketing. So I started buying books and going to the seminars. Then we left that after about nine years of doing that, went to a family ministry for about 10 years to help build marriages and families thought that was gonna be the last thing I ever did until they went through corporate reorganizations. And I found myself in prison as I call it a job that I hated did that for two years finally got fed up, talked to my wife, prayed. I said, I gotta get out of here, stepped out of, of ministry.

Michael DeLon (02:03): This was January of 2013. Stepped out of ministry, hit easy street, John. I started my own company and I I'd come out to you. I say, John, I think I can help you with your business. Cause I understand small business in marketing. You'd meet with me. We'd have a great conversation. You'd say, Michael, what have you done for the last few years? I said, I've build marriages and families and family life. And you would say that that's awesome. Michael, look at the time I gotta go and you wouldn't hire me. And I wasn't getting any clients. And I said, I gotta fix this. So I was at my church one day, pacing, the hallways, just praying, going God, how can I help somebody? And he gave me the idea to take all of my marketing ideas and put them in a book. So I did.

Michael DeLon (02:41): I wrote a book. I, I knew nothing. I mean, you've published four, five I or six books. I, I knew nothing about publishing. So I wrote my first book on marketing. Then I would call you and I'd say, John, I think I can help you with your, your marketing. I'd mail a copy of my book to you. I'd walk into your office a week later. And there it was, my book was on your desk dog. You'd highlighted that. And you'd read my book in that meeting, John, you'd say now, Michael, in your book, you said, yeah, how do you help me do that? And you'd hire me. So what changed in those two meetings? Did my understanding of marketing change? Nope. Right. Did my background in ministry change? Nope. What John was how you thought of me when you got in my book, you immediately saw me as a marketing expert, right? You had pen in hand, ready to take down the solutions I had for you. That changed my, my life. I started gaining clients and I said, why don't more business owners do this? Well, as you know, cause you've published so many books, a little challenging and publish it in new books. So our, our contention is that business owners are experts at what they do. Everybody wants to be an author. Nobody wants to write a book. We figured out how to make that happen. So that's the short version, John of my story.

John Jantsch (03:52): Well, it's interesting. I've worked with, uh, small business owners. Many of them are family businesses for many years. And I think a little bit of marriage and counseling will probably go a long way in working with that demographic.

Michael DeLon (04:03): Absolutely.

John Jantsch (04:04): So let's define the term. I mean, I think you started to unpack a little bit, but let's just define, you know, the Webster's dictionary term of, you know, what is credibility marketing?

Michael DeLon (04:15): Yeah. Credibility marketing is being seen by your odd audience as trustworthy. Right. And believable. Right. Okay. We've all heard for years. They gotta know like, and trust you. Right. I, I love, and I hate that definition. It's just beat to death, right? Yeah. Credibility goes to the next level because it deals with really how the perception your audience has of you. The and, and do they feel that connection that yes, you're a person of integrity. You have a consistent message and I believe that you are who you say you are and can do what you say can do. Now I wanna have a conversation to see for a good fit. Right. Really is the big difference.

John Jantsch (04:58): Yeah. And I think as you, uh, describe that too, I think gets a huge differentiator as well. Right? I mean, because part of the challenge with people who sell marketing services, for example, marketing consulting is 200 other people in my town that do it too. So how do I kind of stand out and have somebody say, well, you know what, I'm gonna talk to you instead of them

Michael DeLon (05:16): AB absolutely. And there is no better differentiator on earth, in my opinion than handing somebody a copy of the book you wrote. Right. And said, I'm the author of yeah. Right. It stops them in their tracks.

John Jantsch (05:29): So one of the, one of the challenges, I think nobody disagrees with that point of view. Right. But, but you see a lot of people sort of self proclaimed experts, self proclaimed thought leaders, you know, I mean, who gets to decide if, if you're credible or an expert.

Michael DeLon (05:44): Yeah. Great question. At the end of the day, it is your audience. Right. Right. People determine credibility through a, a variety of, of, of ways. Right. Do you have media credentials, have you been featured? Do you have experts? All of that, but the real aspect, John is we're, we're looking for an opportunity to connect with a prospect and have a conversation. What better way to do that than to hand them a copy of your book and let them read and spend one on one time with you through the pages of the book so that they will bond with you understand your message when you do that, you gain credibility. Yeah. Because what they've seen on your website or on your Facebook ads or whatever, it's consistent, that's the real essence of the credibility.

John Jantsch (06:33): Yeah. And I think there's a lot of people that attach credibility to a book, you know, it's easier than ever to write a book now. Of course. And uh, so, so maybe some of that's left over from a day when it was a very exclusive club right. Of people writing books. But in truth, what we're talking about is content in general. I mean yeah. Audio content, your content on your website, content of your emails and then certainly a giant mega content piece of content Absolut a book. Right?

Michael DeLon (07:01): Absolutely. Yeah. Cuz I mean, we've got a whole coaching program for people who don't even have books. Yeah. Because credibility doesn't necessitate a book, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it is the, it's the content and, and John, what I found many times, it's your story. You asked me my story at the beginning, that's unique to me and my competitors cannot compete with that story. Right? Yeah. Every business owner has a story, but what I find is they don't tell it and they don't. And so that's one thing we help them do at the very beginning is help us understand your story because that plays into what we would call brand G that set you apart. So that you're not just another financial advisor or CPA or attorney. You're a guy who has a unique story. And now you can tell me about that story and how that plays into my life because of, of how it connects with all the dots. So that's one of the biggest things I, I see business owners just really miss in the boat on.

John Jantsch (08:00): So having credibility of course has always been important. I mean, that's never gonna hurt you. Right. But, but is there something unique about the market or the way people buy, uh, today that makes it even more important? There seems to be a lot more emphasis on this idea.

Michael DeLon (08:15): Oh yeah. Well, without question, I, I think because the, the market has been flooded, not only right advertising, but with practitioners. Right. And I don't care where you go, whether you're an attorney, a CPA, a financial advisor, a dog trainer, I can go to Google and find 22 of them. Yeah. How am I gonna know who who's a good fit for me? And that's why a, I, I want simple websites with compelling copy. Yeah. I want videos. I want podcasts. I want books to read. I wanna know who you are and is your message consistent? And are you the type of person I even like. Yeah. Right. That's that all of that builds credibility nugget by nugget layer upon layer. I, I had a client yesterday. We were doing his podcast and he, he written a book with me and he said, I just got a client. She's 30. This is a retirement financial advisor. Right. Got a client. She's 30. She said, I got a copy of your book. I've listened to numerous podcasts. And I've read a couple of your articles. Now I'm ready to have a conversation with you. Yeah. He built credibility through a variety of media of content and she felt good to, to, we forget that marketing's about winning people's hearts and getting them to believe we're the right person and waiting for them to be ready. It's not a, it's not a light switch. Yeah. It's a relationship.

John Jantsch (09:38): Well, I tell people all the time, I think the things that changed the most that we underestimate, a lot of times the thing that's changed the most about marketing is how people are able to and choose to buy today. And just what you described. I mean, it used, there was a day when somebody had to wait for me to send an ad or put an ad out there or, you know, do a sales call and convince them that I was the right choice. But in many cases today, I think people just doing what you said, listen to a podcast, listen to this. I mean, they've already made their mind up that you're the right choice. And I think that's why I think the emphasis on the need for this is so great. Isn't it?

Michael DeLon (10:11): Well, it, it is. And when, whether you have a podcast or a book or something, right. It's I call it precon, auditioning people to hire you before you ever meet with them. People are researching. Yeah. They're all over the internet. What's on your website. Are, are you educational? Are you entertainment? Are you what I call infotainment? Right. Yeah. Yeah. How are you engaging with people in, in keeping it and forth? Yep. Talking about their needs and how you serve people, giving examples and giving them an opportunity to walk through, um, that process to say, yeah, I'm ready to have a conversation with you. And I don't feel like you're a used car salesman, right. That,

John Jantsch (10:51): That, well, and I think the other thing that probably raises the bar quite significantly too, is that now, you know, when I, I started my consulting practice, you know, in Kansas city, Missouri, you know, that's who I could effectively go after were people there? Well, I can, I sell to people now in 12 or 13 countries. And so now all of a sudden, you know, every marketing consultant is competing maybe with every Mar marketing consultant around the world. And so, so the need to stay it out. I think it's just the bar's gone up significantly. Well,

Michael DeLon (11:22): It, it really has. And, and really at, at your level, but at a business owner's level, your ideal client is going to buy you right. More than what you do. Sure. Right. And that's where that credibility really comes out. And the consistency of message. And are, are you a good fit? And, and your whole funnel, your process should be all about giving information, directing them down a path and saying, this is who I am. This is how we operate. We would love to serve you, take the next step when you're ready.

John Jantsch (11:53): And now we're from a sponsor. You know, small business owners have a lot on their plate, but luckily you don't have to be a graphic designer, extraordinaire, superstar, creative strategist, or marketing Maven to make your work, come to life on social with Vista Create, you can create beautiful assets without design experience or needing to it to a third party, making it the ultimate hack for creating slick visuals that boost engagement. You can have designs that look like they took hours made in minutes, and you can try it out for free @ create.vista.com.

John Jantsch (12:29): So let's go, uh, back to books. Um, what makes a book sort of a significant tool or significant channel maybe over and above? Just, you know, doing video on LinkedIn.

Michael DeLon (12:42): Yeah. Great question. Still in the mind of consumers, Pete experts have books. Yeah. Period. That's why you've written five of them. It's why Tony Robbins is who he is. Cuz he is got books, right? Yeah. And he book. So that's number one is how the mind thinks about authors. Number one, number two, it gives you real estate. It gives you time. When we read books, we read them one, one on one, right? Yeah. I don't gather my family to read a book. I read it. So I'm bonding with you through the pages of your book, sharing your story as I'm reading your book, I'm nodding on. Oh yeah. Or new I'm underlining. You're connecting with me. And then hopefully your book has mechanisms to go back to your website, listen to a podcast. It's the content delivery of, are you meeting me where I am and are you sharing stories that help me understand that you have helped other people go to where I, I need to go. Yeah.

John Jantsch (13:35): So you, we already talked about the hard part. I think a lot of people probably believe that it's, you know, it's very hard or don't believe they can write 56,473 words, you know, in one, on one topic, what have you been able to do? Or is there sort of a formula for saying, look, if you've got a halfway decent idea, we can get it into a book. I mean, is there something you've done to, to, to kind of make that process less arduous?

Michael DeLon (13:59): Yeah, absolutely. We created, uh, years ago, what we call our speak to write process. Okay. You can talk about your business all day long so it can every business on it. Right? Right. What we do is we have a team of expert writers who jump on a phone call or a zoom call. We ask questions to build the outline for the book because you're an for, you can, again, you can talk about this. We help you structure what's in your head and in your heart to an outline. And then from that outline our writers, get you to speak and, and record all of your content. And then our writers craft that and massage your words, your content, your voice into the book, you're obviously in total control of it, but it saves so much time in, in less than we've clocked it. If you stay on our process less than 24 o'clock hours of your time to create a book over about five or six months of our time. Right? Yeah,

John Jantsch (14:47): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I, I, you know, I think you could make a case globally for saying, well, every business can use a book or every business owner. I, I mean, there's no question a consultant, you know, a professional service provider. I mean, that's a no brainer, but are you starting to see that, that this is a tactic that can actually work for, you know, people that would traditionally think, why does anybody wanna read a book from me?

Michael DeLon (15:13): Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I walked into a grocery store a few years ago. It was, um, national chain and the owner of that national train was a regional chain. The owner of that regional chain had written a book telling his story. I'm like a grocery store. Uh, we done it for dog trainers, a guy who trains canine dogs for police forces. Right. Go figure. But what happens is people read the book and because you're just sharing your knowledge in a specific way, you're automatically elevated in that person's mind as the expert. Well guess what, they're gonna find you on LinkedIn or Facebook or a blog. And they're gonna tell other people around you cuz your market's not just your audience, it's their sphere of I yeah. And, and we haven't even talked about referrals with the book and how powerful that is. Cuz everybody says, well, I love referrals. Do you have a system in place to give, get re so I dunno if that helped or not.

John Jantsch (16:03): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and, and the, the thing that I think is interesting about is because every author, speaker consultant has a book, you know, I mean, because that's, it's just like you have to, but how about that remodeling contractor, you know, that could write a book about, you know, how to make your home suitable for, you know, your family or whatever, you know? I mean that, that kind of thing would be such a differentiator, wouldn't it?

Michael DeLon (16:27): Oh, absolutely. We I've got a, I've got a book on shelf, uh, home inspector. Okay. It doesn't get more generic than home inspection dude. Yeah. Yeah. And as he came to us, we got his story, which is where we always start. He's a football referee on weekends and that's what he loves to do. And he said, there's a lot of con consistency between referee and football and home inspection there's rules, there's foul. And, and we rebranded him as America's home inspection referee. So when he comes out to, um, do your home inspection, guess what? He's wearing a referees outfit. Yeah. When he sees something wrong with your house, guess what he puts on it, a yellow.

John Jantsch (17:00): Oh, I, I thought he just yeah. Threw a

Michael DeLon (17:02): Well, oh, there it is. Now tell me, does he now have price elasticity because he's got a great compelling message. Right? Anybody can do that. It's a matter of discovering your story and connecting the dots. It's it's not rocket science.

John Jantsch (17:16): Well, and you make a really good point too. Um, that I think often is underestimated. You know, all of these things go together, right? I mean, not the book was just a piece of telling the story, but there was a story and a brand promise and a differentiation that became part of the over overall arching strategy. Isn't it?

Michael DeLon (17:32): Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, the book's great. It, because you know, with our book program, we create a podcast for our clients and we interview them on every chapter. So now they have content going out in audio form. We do it on zoom so that now they have videos to go out. And now you're populating YouTube and LinkedIn and Facebook with videos of you being the expert. Again, it's taking a piece of content saying how many different ways can I use that one piece of content? Yeah. I've got a book, I've got a blog, I've got a Facebook post. I've got a video. I've got a podcast. You pretty soon. You're the only, and trust me, John you're competitors are not marketing this way.

John Jantsch (18:06): Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's such, you know, in some ways going into these non-traditional fields and doing this, it's such a differentiator because nobody else is doing it. Yeah.

Michael DeLon (18:17): Well, no. Okay. Let's alright. Roofers flooring, contractors, plumbers, electricians. They all have a bad reputation. Right. They don't show up. They don't. I, we had, we did a, a, a book for a roofer here in town. And he specifically niche in being your roof leak detective. Yeah. That's his whole thing. Right. And it was just beautiful to position him that way and say, you've got roofers, but I, I can find the leak and then he uses it for commercial, but he wrote the book on it. Yeah. Do you think that makes an impact when you're looking at four different roofing companies, the guy can hand you his book game over. Yeah.

John Jantsch (18:51): Yeah. So I think you've kind, I was gonna ask you about some success stories, but I think you've shared some, maybe just pick up your, pick out your favorite, um, kind of book project that you've done and, and maybe talk a little bit about what the impact for that person or business was.

Michael DeLon (19:09): Yeah.

John Jantsch (19:10): They always hard. Yeah.

Michael DeLon (19:12): It, it is. Cuz we got many, there's an attorney down in, I think it's Fort Lauderdale, Florida, personal injury attorney, young guy going against two major dogs. Okay. These, these other guys were spending millions a a month and he doesn't have that budget. He's on TV to comes to me. We, we talk about his story. He was a baseball player from the Northeast, went to, to on baseball. Scholarship was a pitcher, threw his arm out second year, ruined his baseball career, went to law school. Now he's a personal injury attorney. Okay. We got that story. And we realized he went through rehab. He went through all the stuff that he helps his clients go through now. Yeah. And we said time out here it is. So his book is when what to do when life throws you a curve ball ties into his unique story, his competitors can't compete about it meets his audience right where they are.

Michael DeLon (20:04): Yeah. Now when he's on television being interviewed, which was what he was doing saying, I'm a personal injury attorney. I can get you millions of dollars against the big dogs done work. He said, he tells his story. He says, get a free copy of my book. You can read my story and what you can do and what you need to do when life throws you a curve ball. Yeah. It's a beautiful message on, and what's happened is when he is on TV. Now he gets a lot more people requesting his book that he mails out to them. And he has a relationship. His business is only consistently because he has a clear message that ties to his story. That's different than anybody else.

John Jantsch (20:41): Yeah. And that brings up another point too. The people he's competing against are spending, you know, $30,000 a month on an SEO firm, you know, running probably got billboards, probably running radio. Right. And what he's doing is costing, you know, a 10th of that or, or you know, a 20th of that. Right. Absolutely. And I think that's a point that credibility can really bring isn't it, it

Michael DeLon (21:01): Really is. And right. So think about this, John, and this is the reason I love books. If you, if he had, if he buys a hundred copies of his book and he hands them out to his prospects and clients, he goes out to universities where he used to play baseball. He hands his book all out, he's all over the place. You don't need to reach the entire Fort Lauderdale market. Right. He needs a smaller market that he can be consistently relentless in and it will change everything. You don't need massive budgets. You need smart marketing. Yeah. And that's the one thing I found even. I mean, there are a lot of guys, a lot of business who've written books, John, they don't know what to do with that book to market their firm. That's why we started our coaching programs to help them up there because there's so much you can do. And, and most of it is low cost or no cost strategy, the GS to go, how do I position myself differently and do that flank move around the big dog. Cause we all have them. Right. Yeah.

John Jantsch (21:56): All right. Michael, tell people where they can find out more about, uh, your programs, including your latest coaching program.

Michael DeLon (22:01): Yeah. Yeah. If you go to, uh, just paperback expert.com, that's our website. Everything you need about us is there and yeah. It's the easiest way. Paperback expert.com.

John Jantsch (22:12): All right. Well thanks Michael. For some by the duct tape marketing podcast and hopefully we'll, uh, run into each other one of these days out there on the road.

Michael DeLon (22:18): That sounds great, John. Thanks for having me, buddy. All

John Jantsch (22:20): Righty.

John Jantsch (22:20): Hey, and don't forget. Vista create is a graphic design platform where anyone can easily craft professional and unique content for social media and digital marketing. It's a combination of graphic design editor and an ever growing library of customizable templates to suit any industry or occasion. Check it out @ create.vista.com. You can try it for free that's create.vista.com.

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How To Create Predictable Recurring Revenue Streams Without Selling Your Hours

How To Create Predictable Recurring Revenue Streams Without Selling Your Hours written by Sara Nay read more at Duct Tape Marketing



About the show:

The Agency Spark Podcast, hosted by Sara Nay, is a collection of short-form interviews from thought leaders in the marketing consultancy and agency space. Each episode focuses on a single topic with actionable insights you can apply today. Check out the new Spark Lab Consulting website here!

About this episode:

In this episode of the Agency Spark Podcast, Sara talks with Shaahin Cheyene on how to create predictable recurring revenue streams without selling your hours.

Born in Iran, Cheyene is an award winning entrepreneur, writer and filmmaker currently based in Los Angeles, California. He is the CEO and Chairman of Accelerated Intelligence. Through Accelerated Intelligence, an Amazon Marketing & Advertising Agency, he manages the selling of his products and helps other Brand Owners to scale their online sales not just in Amazon but other marketplaces like: ebay, shopify & Walmart. Cheyene shares his passion for Amazon through his Amazon’s Course: Amazon Mastery.

More from Shaahin Cheyene:

• Email Shaahin and get his one hour course on creating additional revenue streams for free at darkzess@gmail.com
• fbasellercourse.com
• Hack And Grow Rich Podcast
• Billion Book

 

Like this show? Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts here!

 

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How To Build A Winning Coaching Business

How To Build A Winning Coaching Business written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Marc Mawhinney

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interview Marc Mawhinney. Marc is a lifelong entrepreneur who helps coaches get more clients without paid advertising. He achieves this with his coaching programs, his podcast Natural Born Coaches, his Facebook group The Coaching Jungle, and his exclusive print newsletter – Secret Coach Club.

Key Takeaway:

There are certainly a lot of people jumping into the coaching profession. Building a successful coaching business isn’t rocket science, but it does take following proven steps and building things properly from the ground up. In this episode, Marc Mawhinney and I walk through how to cut through the noise today and what it takes to build a profitable coaching business.

Questions I ask Marc Mawhinney:

• [1:37] How long have you yourself been a coach and where’d you get started with your training?
• [2:59] How do you find that you’re able to cut through that noise that you mentioned?
• [4:27] How do you get clients without paid advertising?
• [6:12] If I’m just getting started as a coach and need to get clients, is there a channel that you would tell people is a great place to get a jumpstart?
• [7:38] When you are working with coaches, what’s the thing they get wrong most often?
• [9:38] How does somebody who doesn’t have a reputation already go about building a reputation of influence or expertise?
• [11:45] What are some of the practices that you see that top-tier coach coaching businesses do?
• [13:52] What do you see successful coaches doing to actually stimulate referrals?
• [16:07] Is there a delivery mechanism you see that works best for coaching nowadays?
• [19:21] Are there any trends that you see in coaching right now you think people ought to be paying attention to?
• [20:18] Where can more people find out about your programs and your work?

More About Marc Mawhinney:

• The Coaching Jungle Facebook Group
• Natural Born Coaches Podcast

More About The Duct Tape Marketing Consultant Network:

• Check it out here.

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

Duct Tape Transcript

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John Jantsch (00:00): This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by the Salesman Podcast, hosted by Will Barron brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network. Look, if you work in sales, wanna learn how to sell or just peek at the latest sales news. Check out the sales podcast where host will Barron helps sales professionals learn how to find buyers and in big business in effective and ethical ways. One of my favorite episodes lately, how to personalize your sales outreach at massive scale, who doesn't want to do that? Listen to the salesman podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

John Jantsch (00:46): Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Marc Mawhinney. He's a lifelong entrepreneur who helps coaches get more clients without paid advertising. He achieves this with his coaching programs, his podcast, natural born coaches, his Facebook group, the coaching jungle and his exclusive print newsletter secret coach club. So mark, welcome to the show.

Marc Mawhinney (01:15): Well, uh, thanks for having me, John, and I should let people know, uh, what a good guy you are. I messed up our original meeting last week where I didn't up at our time, uh, scheduling snafu. Totally my fault, but you're very gracious and here we are today. So it's embarrassing for me, but thank you for not, uh, blocking me and kicking me outta your

John Jantsch (01:33): World. Now you've done your public penance there. So all all is right. So, so how long let's talk a little bit about your journey. How long have you yourself been a coach and kinda where do you get started your training? Cuz there's, there's certainly a lot of people jumping into the profession and I'd, I'd love to hear kind of maybe how your, your approach or your point of difference.

Marc Mawhinney (01:54): Yeah, so I officially started March, 2014, so we're around eight years now. And at the time I thought I was too late to the party of I was crowded and uh, I waited too long and here we are in 2022 and it's 10 times noisier and way more coaches. So the more of the story, there's never a perfect time. Just jump in there and do it. Now. My background's actually real estate. You know, I spent about a decade building up a large real estate company and throughout my twenties, and then everything collapsed in 2009. Right. And basically I went through a rough period of couple years where after nonstop success, it was just a couple years of struggle and everything. I touched, turned to crap instead of gold. And I was held back to my feet by several coaches. And that's how I found out about coaching. What eventually led me into start my coaching business in 2014,

John Jantsch (02:41): You made a use the word, no, uh, noisy. Mm. And I think that I too have, you know, I work with consultants and have for many years. And when I started my program maybe 10 years ago, I don't know that there were too many people out there now everybody's selling some sort of training for digital agencies. And you know, how do you find that you kind of cut through that

Marc Mawhinney (03:01): Noise? Well, I like yourself. I mean, you've been at it longer than me and there's that consistency, you know, since 2014, I've released 751 episodes as of today for my podcast, you know? And I've gone on a lot of shows like this. I I've been doing daily emails to my list since 26 steam and haven't missed a day there. So it's not always a sexy superpower consistency. Yeah. Cause everyone's looking for, you know, the magic bullet, but it's just showing up every day and then you're gonna outlast those people that we've all seen. They jump into it and the, and they, uh, burn themselves out. You know, they, they don't make the million bucks in the first month they get frustrated and then they're gone. So a lot of it was just me showing up every day. Like, was it Woody Allens it showing up half the battle or something? I don't know. I'm not a big Woody Allen fan, but for his movies. But I think he said that,

John Jantsch (03:49): So let me get this straight. You're saying you work really hard for a long time. That's the secret.

Marc Mawhinney (03:53): Yeah. Go figure. Yeah.

John Jantsch (03:55): Who wants? I like that.

Marc Mawhinney (03:57): I'm an optimistic person, but uh, what to things like business, I'm also realistic. So I say I'm an optimistic realist. Uh, so I'm not the type, uh, you know, when you plant a seed and you, uh, sprinkle some water on it and stuff, you don't expect it to come up outta the ground until the next day, I just assume it'll happen. So yeah. I mean, everything I do is with that in mind that, Hey, I'm just gonna do my best job possible, gonna hang in there. And then the results usually come, but I don't beat myself up if I don't get a bunch of money coming in on day one to trying something. Right.

John Jantsch (04:27): So in the intro, you mentioned that you do marketing, uh, for coaches or teach marketing for coaches without, uh, paid advertising. So I'm guessing somebody listening to this show, I go, okay, how do I, you know, get clients without paid advertising market?

Marc Mawhinney (04:42): Well, we just touched on it. You gotta roll up your sleeves and do some work. Yeah. Uh, so when I got started in 2014 coming off of bad business closure where I lost everything, you know, went belly up. I didn't have the benefit of having a big war chest. Like I had back in my real estate days, cuz I used to do a ton of now we're talking about the stone ages, you know, the early 2000, but I did a lot of postcard mailouts and radio advertising and print advertising and so on and all. And then when I start coaching, I'm like, oh man, I don't have that. I can't be spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on marketing. Uh, at the time I thought of negative looking back now there was a silver lining there cuz it forced me to really hone my message.

Marc Mawhinney (05:20): I had to do it all or, and put that work into it. And so I do find a lot of times people try to shortcut the process of this coaching. Let's say they're coming from corporate America, they got their golden parachute or they're sitting on a bunch of money and they think I'll just hire some, uh, funnel expert or guru and spend 30 or 50 grand and that'll handle it. But yeah, that, that's how coaches can do it is just by rolling up your sleeves. I know it sounds like common sense and just doing it.

John Jantsch (05:48): So, you know, I talk about that as, as well. And I talk about, you know, the various channels and you know, ways that we can reach our clients and inevitably somebody, you know, comes up like I'll, I'll, I'll do a talk to seven steps to, you know, marketing, small business marketing success or something. And at the end I'll always, somebody will come up and say, that's great. There's all these things we gotta do. But like what's the one thing, right? So, so if I'm, if I, if I'm just getting started, say as a coach and I really, you know, I do need to get clients. Is there a channel, is there a place, is there an activity that you would tell people? Well, as you're just getting started, here's, you know, here's something you should at least do to maybe kind of jumpstart.

Marc Mawhinney (06:28): I mean there's more than one way to skin a cat, right? So there's certain ma uh, platforms that I prefer you and I chatted about this. When you came on my show, a good example, you with blogging. I mean, that was a great way that got your name out there, put you on the map and everything for me podcast really have three pillars, podcasting. That's my show. But also going out on shows, I like this. There's a Facebook group, really community building. Uh, so I have the coaching jungle group and then the third ways with daily email marketing. So what I would say is, um, the, your three pillars or a couple things may be different than mine, but find, uh, one or a couple things that you enjoy doing and that you can get results from and then consistently do it instead of trying to spread out and do every single thing that's out there. Cause you don't have the time to do that. So it's like trying to start a fire with a magnifying glass. If you're moving it around, it's not gonna catch on fire. Uh, you gotta keep in one place. Yeah. Yeah.

John Jantsch (07:19): Great. Uh, point, I remember doing that as a kid all the time, um, laying

Marc Mawhinney (07:23): You with the little army figures, it goes Bart Simpson, one of the episodes of the Simpsons, he was melting the little green army guy.

John Jantsch (07:30): Um, I, I think you kind of answered this already, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna pose it to you directly and you could say, well, yeah, that's what I meant by that. But when you are working with coaches, what do you see that they tip? What, what's the thing they get wrong most often?

Marc Mawhinney (07:43): Well, especially with new coaches, uh, they assume that they're gonna spend, uh, roughly 80% of their time coaching. And then, oh, the other 20% maybe finding clients doing a little bit of backend paperwork and stuff, but the majority of their time will be spent coaching. Yeah. Anyone who spend any time the business and is that it's a flip side of it. And actually it wouldn't even be 20% of your time. Coaching is probably even less, but the, the vast majority of your time spent, uh, doing the things to, to find clients, which some people don't like because they do the coaching, right. That's why they're getting into it. And they, they think, oh gee, I don't wanna be selling it. I don't wanna be posting content marketing or whatever, but that's what you have to do. You're gonna be a, uh, well kept secret. If you're not willing to get out there. I've often said if I had to put my money on one of two coaches, if there's a mediocre coach that has amazing advertiser marketing and, and skills, but then there's this incredible coach best in the world, but sucks at marketing. I'd put my money in the mediocre coach. Unfortunately. Uh, that's just the way the world is.

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John Jantsch (09:38): You know, you've been doing this for a while. You've put lots of time and energy into building a bit of a reputation. There's no question that has value, right? I mean, people, uh, see you, they begin to like you and trust you and they're willing to pay a premium perhaps to work with you because of a reputation. How does somebody who doesn't have that go about building, uh, a reputation of influence or in expertise without, you know, without having that kind of long term, uh, success?

Marc Mawhinney (10:09): Well, I mean, I think, uh, one great way to do it's podcasting and you're a fan of podcasting too. I started my show in November of 2014. So I was still within that first year of being in business. The podcast got me in touch with some really, uh, great people. You know, some were big names, uh, some weren't so big names with their interesting people. Well, connected got my foot in the door with others. And then when people went to check, they're like, oh, gee, he's, you know, host a podcast. He's had these people on, like for example, I rich Lipton and Steve Chandler on my show fairly early in the run, they wrote the prosperous coach and they're well known in, in coaching circles. So people say, oh, Jay mark knows rich. And Steve, you know, now we're not best buddies or anything like that, but we talk from time to time with both those guys. And they're great. So I think podcasting, especially where there's little to expense to do it, or it's peanuts, that's probably your best bang for your buck. As long as you're patient with it, you don't expect to make the million dollars in the first week or anything like that.

John Jantsch (11:08): You mentioned the real estate industry and you know, it's most people, I don't know if most people know this or not, but probably about 20% of residential real estate, eight agents make any real money. Uh, the other, you know, run around it's part-time job. They get in it, get out of it. There's some similarity. I think in coaching, you know, it's very easy to get into coaching, you know, call yourself a coach. I think the, the top 20% are probably people that treat it as a real business that are very successful. Now I'm not disparaging the industry. I'm just that, you know, you can go industry by industry and that's probably the case. So, so having said that, what are some of the things practices not necessarily marketing, but what are some of the practices that you see that, that top tier, uh, coach coaching business do?

Marc Mawhinney (11:51): Well, I'm glad you mentioned about the similarities, cuz I've said that often before too, I catch myself, instead of saying coach, I might say agent or something. Yeah. First you think, well, there's not no similarities between the two, but actually there is, I just actually wrote an email the other day about this. And I said, one of the things I noticed that successful, uh, coaches don't do versus unsuccessful is complain. You know? And what I mean by that, I, everybody complains, you know, human or whatever, but they, they, they're not spending their time griping about, well, well, here's an example which I noticed in real estate, and this is why I love coaching in real estate. I was in a, a small, I say small market in Atlantic. Canada's 300 agents in my marketplace and everybody talked crap about everyone because they would, if I got a listing or John gets a listing, then O GE John took food off my, uh, table.

Marc Mawhinney (12:38): Right. He got that commission. I just talked to that homeowner two weeks ago. I should add it. Yeah. You know, or stuff like that. So in real estate, uh, the agents are all 364 days of the year, stabbing each other in the back. And then at the Christmas party for the real estate board, they're hugging it at each other, like their best friends. Then it's back to normal with the coaching world. What I like about it is it's not like that because, uh, it you're in, uh, Colorado. Right? I am, I am. So if, if you're in Colorado, you get a client I'm not grumbling up. You're like, oh geez, John, that bugger, he got that, you know, whatever, it's billions dollars a year industry. And it's just not saying everybody loves each other all the time. There's of course feuding and things, but, but yeah, I've find the successful coaches. They're not looking at the complaining or, or bringing other people down. And I see some coaches on social media, especially that some of the stuff they're posting, uh, about is, uh, it's kind of depressing. I'm like, I don't think I'd want to work with that person. They're just complaining that much. So there, there would be one thing that would differentiate to,

John Jantsch (13:34): So

John Jantsch (13:36): Coaching is one of those businesses, like a lot of professional services where a high level of trust really needs to be established with clients. So I'm guessing Nile, I know this, that referrals are a really big part of, you know, how a lot of coaches probably acquire new business. So what do you see success coaches doing to actually stimulate that? Obviously doing good work, being trustworthy. You know, those are things that are gonna make referrals happen, but I see a lot of businesses that get a lot of referrals, but they don't do anything to try to actually stimulate them. In fact, I, I, I sure one statistic and then I'll show up that, that their firstly, a Texas tech, the university did a study in, they found they interviewed 2000 consumers and, and 86 or so percent of them said there was a business they loved so much, they would refer. And then the flip side of that was only 27% of them actually did. And so, you know, I often say there's gotta be some real money in that gap. You know, it's not enough to just have happy customers. You've gotta do something to stimulate that, that referability I think,

Marc Mawhinney (14:38): Yeah. I mean, one thing, it sounds kind of funny to say it, uh, you have to ask for referrals, which I don't think that's being done nearly enough. I'm probably guilty of that too. Yeah. You know, full disclosure. One of the things I do in this might sound a little, uh, craft, but I, I think it does help if somebody refers business to me, whether it be a client or good joint venture partner or something, I sounds bad. I'll pay them. Yeah. I'll pay for the referral. Yeah. I know some people say, well, you shouldn't do that cuz it, you know, or whatever, it's my way saying, Hey, um, I appreciate you keeping me in mind. And I would pay all day long if someone's handing me a good client on a silver platter. I given referrals to people. It's not that I'm doing it just for, you know, money or monetary gain, but sometimes I'm not even getting thanks, uh, from people, uh, before, which is, I'm like, wow, that's kind of silly if somebody's referring you business and a really good client, one person I know, you know, not to, not to complain cuz I just talked to complaining, but uh, I gave them a five figure client, a really good client or whatever.

Marc Mawhinney (15:33): And I got a little, uh, nut basket or something in the mail, you know, like a $20 basket, which is fine. Like, you know, I'm not a big nut fan or whatever, but yeah, if somebody's given me a client worth 10,000, $50,000, I'm gonna give them a nice gift.

John Jantsch (15:49): So let's go back to, uh, delivery on coaching. So, you know, a lot of coaches, a lot of consultants, a lot of businesses in general, understand the value of having kind of this maybe starter offer and then a core offer and then, you know, group offers and, you know, big, you know, scale program. Do you, you know, is there a delivery mechanism that is, um, you know, is probably the best for coaching now or should every coaching practice have a variety of maybe price points even as well as, uh, delivery mechanisms?

Marc Mawhinney (16:21): Uh, well it's tough because there's different ways to do it. Yeah. You know, uh, some people or a lot of people like the latter approach, uh, where you start with the low price or low ticket thing and then work your way up. I know some coaches at that don't want to get into that. They swear by the no, you start with the big ticket thing. And that's what you're focusing on. The one thing I will say with mine is with my ladder. So to speak, my offers go anywhere from a, a base. I have a print newsletter that's $97 a month, 9 97 a year. That's my, uh, most affordable offering. That's how people can get into my, they they're allowed to pick my brain by email subscribers there. Then it goes all the way up 10,000 to not, but I don't play in the world where, um, a lot of people are like, Hey, let's have a $7 e-book to get people in there and stuff.

Marc Mawhinney (17:05): And I, I just prefer to, uh, have that as a base $97 a month. And if you're not able to do that or not willing to, then that's fine, but you gotta pay to play or have some skin in the game, uh, that way too. So you could do it any number of ways. My suggestion though is not to have too many. So a true story. I had a client, uh, years ago, this was probably five or six years ago. And when we started working together before our first call, I'd want to get as much information as possible, get a feel for his business. And he said, oh, I I'll send over a spreadsheet with my offers to show you what I'm doing. And oh my God, there's like 36 different offers of different, uh, lengths of time frequency for sessions. And I said, how do you keep track of this? Like, you know, he was even confused with it. So you shouldn't need a spreadsheet to track your offers, keep it, you know, keep it simple. Nice and

John Jantsch (17:54): Easy. Plus how do, how do you ever explain all those offers to somebody, as you said, without them coming, just going, I don't know what to depend.

Marc Mawhinney (17:59): They're caught like a, the cot headlights. There's been different studies too showing, uh, one that comes to mind, uh, Joe showman. But yeah, he was doing some work with the Swiss army people. They had a Swiss army with that they're selling and he went in to meet with them. And I guess there were three different types of that Watchers. Uh men's women's and the children's models. And there were three different colors for each. I think it was camouflage black and a different color. And uh, he, they wanted him to have all nine of those models, three times three on the full page ad we, which he did not want do, but they said, no, you know, no, we want do it. He want to run with just the men's black model with it and he couldn't talk them out of it. So he agreed, okay, we'll do a AB split test. We'll put my ad simple one choice versus your ad and see which one does better. And um, pretty sure that his simple one watch ad pulled like four times better or something like that. Yeah. And, uh, so a lot of people think, oh, well there's more selection. You'll get more sales. It's actually the other way, it's more selection confuses the buyer and then they end up not opening their

John Jantsch (18:58): Wallets. Yeah. You certainly see a lot of good, better, best, you know, where people's like, you know, and it's really almost more way of helping somebody make a decision cuz it, you know, always the middle choice says most popular, you know, kinda psychologically sells them the one thing, but also says, oh, it's not the most expensive, you know? So it's, there's a lot of psych psychology and pricing isn't there. So, so let's close up on, are there any trends that you see in coaching right now or trends in delivery models or trends you knows like membership programs where big, you know, for a while, I mean, are there any things that you see coming, uh, in the future that you think people ought be paying attention to?

Marc Mawhinney (19:36): Well, I think a trend that we're and I already saw this the last few years, but I think it's gonna be even more pronounced going forward is coaches are gonna have to deliver on what they're promising. So, you know, gone are the days when you could, you know, put up a fancy sales page or what make all these big promises but not deliver and then still expect to stay in business. I, I think the customer clients are becoming more sophisticated, maybe more jaded too. Yeah. They've been Burt by one or two of these bad apples. Uh, so you're gonna have to do better there and that's good for people like us at weeds at the bad actors and keep doing, you know, the good people will profit. So that's what, what I would see that coaches are gonna have to, you're not gonna have to, uh, not just give the sizzle, but the steak as well, I guess. Yeah.

John Jantsch (20:18): All right. Mark, tell people where they can find out more about your natural born coaches program, the coaching jungle, all the things wherever you wanna send people. Yeah.

Marc Mawhinney (20:24): Well the central hub has the podcast, the access to my daily emails, all that that's at natural born coaches.com and uh, you are a guests on my show. So hopefully your show will be up by time. They go over and check it out. But natural born coaches.com the Facebook group, like you mentioned, the coaching jungle, there's 22,000 coaches in there. Lots of great discussion. That's at dot coaching jungle.com.

John Jantsch (20:45): Awesome. Well, mark, it was great. Uh, having you come by the duct tape marketing podcast and hopefully we'll, uh, run into you, uh, one of these days when I'm up in, uh, Canada again.

Marc Mawhinney (20:54): Yeah, come on over and double go skiing or something. Wintery sounds Awesome.

John Jantsch (20:59): All right. That wraps up another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. I wanna thank you so much for tuning in. Feel free to share the show, feel free to give us reviews. You know, we love those things. Also. Did you know that we had created training, marketing training for your team? If you've got employees, if you've got a staff member that wants to learn a marketing system, how to install that marketing system in your business, check it out. It's called the certified marketing manager program from duct tape. You can find it at ducttapemarketing.com and just scroll down a little and find that tab that says training for your team.

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